New high tech tank issues - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 03:57 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 455
New high tech tank issues

I am a palud man but a complete newbie when it comes to planted tanks. I do have many hours of reading and lurking on these forums, but very little hands on wisdom.

I recently set up a high tech 20g with the following specs:

Eheim 2213
48 watts of T5 HO (8.5 hour photo period)
Pressurized CO2 (1 bubble every 2 seconds) Drop checker on its way
CO2 comes on 1 hour before photo period
EI ferts
1 inch river rock topped with 2-3 inches inert Caribsea (2mm) substrate rock.

Initial Water Chemistry
GH 8 KH 9 pH 7.8 77 degrees 0 phosphates, 0 nitrates

I had $180 of plants shipped overnight to my place in Alaska (ridiculous shipping of course) once I had everything in place. I used mulum from my first 10g planted tank and some substrate to get the cycle started.

Received the plants a little bit late in the day without heat packs like I requested. The plants were fairly cold to the touch so I tried to acclimate them in tepid water before planting. I did this for only an hour or so. I planted heavily 4 days ago and the "melting" if thats what it is is severe.

I had a great deal of left over plants so I set up a low tech 20g tank for the left overs. This tank used my entire substrate and filter from my 10g so the cycle should be almost immediate (??). At any rate, the same species without any CO2 and only cheezy light are not melting hardly at all.

PLease advise..........fearful my investment is going to crumble.

Vals are turning brown up top and whitish at the bottom.
Chain swords are turning brown leaves and looking horrible.
Ludwiga r. is dropping leaves like theres no tomorrow (not discolored)
Dwarf sag leaves turning white and disappearing
Crypts unharmed

Last edited by Learner; 11-27-2012 at 06:22 AM.
Learner is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 05:30 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Noahma's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thornton, Colorado
Posts: 4,339
If you have no livestock in the tank, I would bump up the co2 quite a bit, try at least 2 bubbles / second, one every two seconds is probably not enough.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Noahma is offline  
post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 05:46 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
m00se's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 1,484
First tank impression: Too much light, no nitrates, high hardness, high pH. More CO2 will lower pH to acceptable 6.4-6.8 range. Hardness won't hurt those plants but they may be reacting to your water being different from the water they came from. I would say that's too much light for all the plants that you mentioned. My sags and vals do well in my tank in med-low light areas. When they grow tall enough to be right under the lightbulbs they turn brown at those places. Are you using pressurized CO2? If so, 2 bps to start, and get yourself some ferts asap. You are driving those plants hard and not feeding them anything if your nitrates are 0.

Second tank confirms 1st tank observation: too much light.
m00se is offline  
 
post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 05:52 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Noahma's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thornton, Colorado
Posts: 4,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by m00se View Post
First tank impression: Too much light, no nitrates, high hardness, high pH. More CO2 will lower pH to acceptable 6.4-6.8 range. Hardness won't hurt those plants but they may be reacting to your water being different from the water they came from. I would say that's too much light for all the plants that you mentioned. My sags and vals do well in my tank in med-low light areas. When they grow tall enough to be right under the lightbulbs they turn brown at those places. Are you using pressurized CO2? If so, 2 bps to start, and get yourself some ferts asap. You are driving those plants hard and not feeding them anything if your nitrates are 0.

Second tank confirms 1st tank observation: too much light.
I agree with the nitrate issue, but if the test kit was not calibrated it is pretty much worthless. Dosing EI should not yield 0 nitrates, which leads me to believe that the test is not calibrated. It is high light, but not too high. The vals might get a bit burned when they start crawling across the surface, I think it was more the method of shipping (since they did not include the heat packs he ordered) that caused the damage. It is certainly too much light with that low of co2, which will cause leaf drop, slow growth, stunting and decaying leaf areas.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Noahma is offline  
post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 05:55 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,015
Unless you have a very cheap light, like a FishNeedIt light, you have way too much light on the 20 gallon tank. Even one T5HO bulb is too much unless it is about 22 inches from the substrate (very good reflectors) or about 16 inches from the substrate (Fair reflectors). A standard 20 gallon tank is about 16 inches high, so the one bulb light would need to be about as far above the top of the tank as the thickness of substrate you use, if it has only fair reflectors.

When you have way too much light it is hard to provide enough CO2 to support the fast growth of the plants, and you need to provide plenty of NPK and trace elements for the same reason. If you don't, only the more vigorous plants will grow well, leaving the other plants starved for nutrients. This can quickly lead to algae attacks.

As you discovered, low light tanks can give much more satisfying results.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 06:49 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 455
I think I was unclear, I'm sorry. Shouldnt have added info on 2 different tanks. thanks so much for the replies.

THe high tech tank is the one I am worried about.......

I did dose the tank according to EI guidelines. The 0 nitrates is my tap water parameters. I am set to dose again tomorrow. I did a partial water change this afternoon becasue of the nitrites. Should I let it ride for now with the water changes until my normal MOnday regime?

I do have some livestock in the tank albeit its only 2 tetras and 3 amano shrimp.

Way too much light??? I know WPG is only a rough guideline and that there are many other variables, but it should only be about 2.4 wpg. Is the intensity too much with the T5 bulbs? I have a bunch of basic floro bulbs at 15 watts each I could use.

My two tetras were gasping this morning when I got to the tank 1 hour after the CO2 turned on. They acted fine soon after I put in an airstone. I will run one all night from now on with a timer. I will also try and bump it up to 2 bps CO2.

I am having a tough time finding a place for the diffuser since it is kind of big. CAn I place it right below the spray bar behind my background or is that too close to the surface of the tank? The spray bar does push the tiny bubbles out into the tank but I am afraid they will not reach all the plants?

So is the concensus still that I have lighting issues causing this destruction of my plants? I can up my ferts to see if that will help and continue to search for the right balance. I cant believe how quickly this is all happening. I am still wondering if the cold travel didnt hurt the situation as well.
Learner is offline  
post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 08:04 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Aquaticfan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,200
I agree with what Hoppy has said about your lights WPG isnt the only way to measure nor is it the most accurate. Not all light are created equal.

Check this thread here. https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/li...t5-t12-pc.html

Specifically the 2nd chart. it should give you an idea of what kind of light you have. Light is what drive the plants. As far as your hardness and PH. Your PH and hardness is lower then my water here and I have no issues with the plants you have or others. It is possible the plants got cold and are dead/dying. Ive had this happen. Sometimes they have a bad odor and feel soft. it can also be why all the leaves are shedding. Another thing is make sure the plants are in the subtrate right. Dont want your swords burried. Make sure the roots are under the substrate but not the crown of where the roots meet the plant. Are you using any root tabs for root feeders? If not worth a try.

Not sure what your diffuser or whatever means your adding your Co2 to your tank is. But Im using a standard glass ceramic diffuser in my 20 gallon with pressurized Co2. I have less light then you do with a 2bulb T5NO light on top. EI ferts and im running around 6-7bps (with an ada glass bubble checker) fully stocked tank. My drop checker is yellow after about 2 hours (comes on with the lights) for 10 hours a day. no fish gasping issues. Plants are pearling at the end of the day. I would think with only 1bps your fairly low on Co2 in the tank. One other thing you could do to help distribute your Co2 is have the intake of the filter suck up the Co2 bubbles and pass them through and spray them across the tank via the spray bar. Ive got my Co2 diffuser running the bubbles into the HOB I have and back into the tank.. Just some thoughts.

Sun Sun pimp #72
RAOK CLUB # 68

Conway
Aquaticfan is offline  
post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 455
Thank you so much. I will put the diffuser in with the intake. i was worried it would ruin the impeller of my eheim.

I am using root tabs for all the plants but will check the roots and make sure they are a bit exposed. I did notice that a coule of the luwigia stems were brown at the bottom so i removed them, clipped the end and replanted them.

Fertilized again today and switched lights over to 18 watts of Aqueon Floromax bulb. looks like its dusk in the tank now instead of mid day.

Do you run an airstone all day long while your running your CO2 in the 20gallon tank you talked about?

Thanks for the link on lighting, will read it right now
Learner is offline  
post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 07:56 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Aquaticfan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,200
I don't run any airstones in my 20 gallon or any of the tanks. I have enough ripple and movement on the surface to bring in plenty of air. The co2 turns on and off with the lights.
And that's it. My o2 levels return pretty fast back to normal at night with the flow I provide in the tank.

Sun Sun pimp #72
RAOK CLUB # 68

Conway
Aquaticfan is offline  
post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 07:58 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Aquaticfan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,200
What ferts and how much are you dosing?

Sun Sun pimp #72
RAOK CLUB # 68

Conway
Aquaticfan is offline  
post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 455
I have a stock solution of

KNO3 23g
KH2PO4 3g
11g K2SO4

Mixed into 500 mL distileld water

Dose 18mL 3 times per week

Just lost both tetras! what is going on here?
Learner is offline  
post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 10:23 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Aquaticfan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,200
Sounds as if you have some odd goings on. Do you mix your own solution from dry ferts? If so why not just dose dry or mix/make per dose. Guess I'm not a fan of making a premade batch of mix. But thats just me. how long has this tank been running? I would fully check your water conditions. have the fish been acting normal?

Sun Sun pimp #72
RAOK CLUB # 68

Conway
Aquaticfan is offline  
post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 11:31 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,015
I suspect the tetras were killed by the nitrites. It's pretty toxic to all fish.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-16-2012, 11:45 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 455
I mix my own ferts with very accurate scales from the physics classes I teach. I wanted to dose with dry salts but cannot seem to find the proper spoons up here in the north woods. Apparently Alaskans dont need to really measure that small of an amount. The tank was built several weeks ago and then finally filled and planted on saturday (6 days ago). I swear I am watching the plants get brown and droop as I am typing this.

Yesterday was the second day the fish were in the tank and I thought them to be getting gased out by the CO2, they were both slowly hanging out at the top of the tank. I had an airstone in there for several hours this afternoon and they seemed to look alright. An hour or so after turning it on, they were both dead.

Wondering if I should try and save my investment and pull the somewhat healthy plants out right now and replant them in the holding tank.
Could it be some unforseen agent poisoning all of my livestock, both fish and plants??

Any ideas? Now that there is no livestock left, I decided to up the CO2 for the remainder of the photoperiod. Running a constant stream of bubbles too fast to count. We'll see what happens. I will run some tests for ammonia and nitrite and get back soon.

thanks again for all the help!
Learner is offline  
post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 02-17-2012, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Alaska
Posts: 455
Dont know whats going on, but my new API test kits just read 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites.

really thinking about pulling everythign and rethinking this whole deal.
Learner is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome