How do you stop CO2? - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 30
How do you stop CO2?

If you use a Yeast/Sugar CO2 device, how do you shut the CO2 off at night when the lights are off?
Dr J is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 03:11 PM
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 592
How do you stop CO2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr J
If you use a Yeast/Sugar CO2 device, how do you shut the CO2 off at night when the lights are off?
My understanding is that you can't. Some people seem to let it run and have no problems with pH swings. I have little airstone I'm going to toss in for lights out because I'm a fraidy-cat.

Kathy
GTApuffgal is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 03:34 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
unirdna's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,291
Kathy's right, DrJ. You don't stop it. This isn't a problem. I have two pressurized systems on my tanks, and run them continously (even though there are solonoid valves on my regs). Surface loss is usually the main cause for CO2 loss, so even when the plants aren't using it, the tank params still stay safe. In fact, there is much less pH swing letting CO2 run continuously (.2) than setting it on a timer (.5-1.0).

Ted


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Set up April 2007 -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Terminated March 2007 -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
unirdna is offline  
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 30
The airstone would offset the unneeded CO2 in a tank overnight (lights out)?
Dr J is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 03:40 PM
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 592
How do you stop CO2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr J
The airstone would offset the unneeded CO2 in a tank overnight (lights out)?
When the lights are out, the plants don't utilize the CO2, so technically it can cause CO2 saturation in the water. Which - depending on how high it climbs can be dangerous to the fish and cause pH to drop. (Am I right guys??? If not - please set me straight. I'm just happy thinking I actually figured some of this out!) With DIY (and often with pressurized for that matter) this doesn't seem to always be a problem. Me? The airstone will create surface turbulance and offset any CO2 buildup which might occur while the plants are ni-night...

Kathy
GTApuffgal is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 04:01 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
unirdna's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTApuffgal
When the lights are out, the plants don't utilize the CO2, so technically it can cause CO2 saturation in the water.
The first part is right, at night plants don't use CO2, in fact, they respirate it. Plants spend their day making sugar (CO2 + H20 + sunlight yields sugar and O2), and at night they use that sugar to grow and repair, using O2 and giving off CO2.

But the second part isn't quite accurate. CO2 saturation is in the 100's-1000's ppm. Temp, carbonate, other dissolved ions, and other factors control the saturation level. That said, you don't need saturation to be dangerous to fish. I've done experiments with different kinds of fish and found different toxicity levels. Some gasp at 50ppm; some not until 100ppm. This is probably why 30ppm is considered the ideal amount - below the toxicity level of more sensitive fishes.

Ted


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Set up April 2007 -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Terminated March 2007 -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
unirdna is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 04:05 PM
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 592
How do you stop CO2

Thanks for setting me straight, Uni! I got it sorta right though, eh? Happy this Grasshoppah is learning...

(Oh Uni, got my UV! Thanks for your help!)

Kathy
GTApuffgal is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 30
So if I ran an airstone at night, it would offset the chance of CO2 building to toxic levels?

Also, if I'm running a CO2 unit designed for tanks approx 30 Gal, and I have a 90 Gal, do I even have to be concerned with too much buildup of CO2?

Thanks for everything so far,
Dr. J
Dr J is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 04:42 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
ridns's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Rockford,IL
Posts: 349
Only if you are using pressurized CO2, its not likely any DYI source will ever get to a dangerous level. Even with a pressurized system its not likely the fish will mind higher levels. I have had mine up to 60 ppm and my angels never minded, in fact they spawned at the time. Higher levels help decrease algae.

Eheim pimp #128, 55gal 13x20x48, Eheim Pro 2227, CO2 injected, into the filter breather tube,4x 55w Pcs , 12 hr light cycle (sunrise/sunset simulated), Milwaukee SMS 122, faulty bubble counter replaced with M3 bubble counter..... moderately Planted, Plantex CSM+B and ferts

To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research
ridns is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 05:00 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
ringram's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,602
Send a message via AIM to ringram
From what I understand, the yeast CO2 method doesn't produce CO2 at quite the rate that pressurized does, so pH swings are a little less of an issue. That said, I ran this method for a littel while and used a brass gang valve to turn it on and off when needbe, but I didn't turn it off at night or anything like that. Never had the pH drop below 6.6 or so, and it was quite stable, actually, even being run 24/7.

90g journal:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

---------------------------------------------------
SFBAAPS member -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


SAPS member -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ringram is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 05:07 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
ringram's Avatar
 
PTrader: (67/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,602
Send a message via AIM to ringram
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTApuffgal
When the lights are out, the plants don't utilize the CO2, so technically it can cause CO2 saturation in the water. Which - depending on how high it climbs can be dangerous to the fish and cause pH to drop. (Am I right guys??? If not - please set me straight. I'm just happy thinking I actually figured some of this out!) With DIY (and often with pressurized for that matter) this doesn't seem to always be a problem. Me? The airstone will create surface turbulance and offset any CO2 buildup which might occur while the plants are ni-night...

Kathy
That could work. Personally, I aim my Eheim spray bar about 45 degrees up (slightly towards the surface)...its enough to agitate the surface enough so I don't get the surface scum, but not so much that I lose much Co2. It seems to work ok. pH stays arond 6.6 during the day and rises to maybe 7.0 at night.

90g journal:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

---------------------------------------------------
SFBAAPS member -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


SAPS member -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ringram is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 05:54 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
unirdna's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 2,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringram
Personally, I aim my Eheim spray bar about 45 degrees up (slightly towards the surface)...its enough to agitate the surface enough so I don't get the surface scum, but not so much that I lose much Co2. It seems to work ok. pH stays arond 6.6 during the day and rises to maybe 7.0 at night.
ringram,
Did you mean the other way around? pH 7 during the day, and 6.6 at night? Or do you only aim your spraybar towards the surface at night?

Ted


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Set up April 2007 -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Terminated March 2007 -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
unirdna is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 06:09 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Aphyosemion's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,073
Send a message via Yahoo to Aphyosemion
If you are using DIY CO2 with a Hagen ladder, you don't need to take any special precautions, such as night time bubblers. I have that setup in most of my tanks and even my two one-gallon tanks and there is no problem. I have discovered however, that if I forget to turn the light on in a 1 gallon tank with the DIY CO2, it will crash the PH. Assuming you are using a timer, which I do on all my tanks but one, you can prettymuch just let the CO2 levels take care of themselves.
By the way, as a funny little anecdote, I tried to turn off my DIY CO2 when I first set it up. I put a valve on the air line and closed it at night. The next morning when I turned the valve back on, so much CO2 came out that it was just one great big bubble of wasted gas. Then, the yeast culture died, probably due either to poisoning itself with CO2 or the massive pressure change caused by the sudden release of the valve. Needless to say, it didn't work as well as I had hoped.
-Aphyosemion

Two 1 GA desktops, a 5 gallon, a 2.5 gallon, a 10 gallon, a 20 gallon, a 25 gallon, and two 75 gallon tanks, all planted.
I am an expert on algae, so ask me if you have questions. I know how to grow it, just not how to get rid of it.
Aphyosemion is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 07:00 PM
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 72
I suppose if you wanted to turn off the Co2 at night in a DIY set-up you could put a scaleable proportioning valve in line with the output of the bottles. At night you can shut the Co2 off to the tank and vent excess gas into the atmosphere. IMO it's not really worth the time, money, and trouble. You can leave it hooked up all night long with no adverse effects (as long as you’re not running half a dozen bottles at 40+ PPM in a 5 gallon tank).

One of the benefits of keeping it hooked up all night (as far as I can tell) is that in the morning when the lights come on, the Co2 is already at a good level for the plants...no wait time for the plants to get the gas and overall you might have a higher Co2 concentration in the tank.

I have a pressurized system with a PH controller. It's set at about 25-30 PPM and I leave it on all the time. I haven't lost a fish yet, I have never seen any of them gasping at the surface for air, and my PH never fluctuates more then .2 unless I'm doing water changes or breaking the surface a lot.
Azimuth is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-31-2005, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 30
Puts my mind at ease about my upcoming setup. I hope you don't mind, but I will be trying to pick your brains some more about the best types of plants for my particular setup. Thanks for all the help.
Dr. J
Dr J is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome