HELP, I'm killing my plants, and I don't know how... - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Mannie Bothans's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 210
Exclamation HELP, I'm killing my plants, and I don't know how...

Hi, while I am waiting to get my tank setup, I have three small holding tanks to contain the plant I want to get into the tank (as soon as I can swap out the carpet in that room).

The plants looked great when they came a few days ago, but now the leaves of some of the rotala and other plants are getting transparent in spots.

There's a photo of the plants at https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pH...ingPlantsc.jpg

(This link has a higher resolution image than the attached image below.)

I'm not running CO2 and just have a dual-bulb, poor reflector Coralife T5 on them about 10 hours a day. They are in sand with OC+ root tabs.

I need to check the Ph. My water company says "Hardness levels leaving our water treatment plants in 2010 ranged from 52 (soft) to 450 ppm (very hard) or 3.0 to 26.3 grains per gallon. The average leaving our plants is 197 ppm (very hard) or 11.5 grains per gallon. The sodium level is approximately 20 ppm. Water within our distribution system averages 7.3 pH units. Alkalinity is the capacity of water to neutralize acids; water within our distribution system averages 77 ppm. The highest Nitrate was 0.29ppm and the highest Nitrite reading was 0.017ppm. For more detailed information please see the complete report at http://www.amwater.com/files/KY_0340250_CCR.pdf"
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	7320_DyingPlantsc.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	80.1 KB
ID:	36629  

Mannie Bothans is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 12:09 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York City.
Posts: 1,974
Nitrate is too low. 10 to 30 ppm is ideal. Root tab isn't enough. You have to dose the water column. Reduce your light period maybe 6??? You have no CO2. Your plants won't grow. Too long of the light period but you don't have enough nutrients for the plants. Look up EI dosing if you haven't done so.
tetra73 is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Mannie Bothans's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 210
Oh, I forgot to mention, I did also dose the water in one of the holding tanks with "Aqueon Aquarium Plant Food," but it only has

Soluble Potash K2O..................................1%
Calcium .................................................. .0.2%
Magnesium (Mg)........................................5%
0.03% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S)..............................................0 .036%
0.036% Combined Sulfur (S)
Boron (B)............................................0.0 006%
Iron (Fe).............................................. ....0.12%
0.12% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)............................0.00008%
0.00008% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo).............................0.0035%
Zinc (Zn)...........................................0.0 0012%
0.00012% Chelated Zinc (Zn)

I put the root tabs about 1.5 inches apart at the bottom of the sand/flourite.

I'll look in to EI.

I can cut down the photoperiod easily enough. I was afraid they weren't getting enough light, but I have been thinking in terms of the big tank, and not realizing the effect of using the same lights on the little 5 gallon buckets.

My actual tank will have aquasoil, but I don't want them to die before I can get them into the tank.
Mannie Bothans is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 12:39 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York City.
Posts: 1,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannie Bothans View Post
Oh, I forgot to mention, I did also dose the water in one of the holding tanks with "Aqueon Aquarium Plant Food," but it only has

Soluble Potash K2O..................................1%
Calcium .................................................. .0.2%
Magnesium (Mg)........................................5%
0.03% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S)..............................................0 .036%
0.036% Combined Sulfur (S)
Boron (B)............................................0.0 006%
Iron (Fe).............................................. ....0.12%
0.12% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn)............................0.00008%
0.00008% Chelated Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo).............................0.0035%
Zinc (Zn)...........................................0.0 0012%
0.00012% Chelated Zinc (Zn)

I put the root tabs about 1.5 inches apart at the bottom of the sand/flourite.

I'll look in to EI.

I can cut down the photoperiod easily enough. I was afraid they weren't getting enough light, but I have been thinking in terms of the big tank, and not realizing the effect of using the same lights on the little 5 gallon buckets.

My actual tank will have aquasoil, but I don't want them to die before I can get them into the tank.
Unfortunately, it does not contain nitrate. The way your plants look, it seems like you have nitrate deficiency.
tetra73 is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Mannie Bothans's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 210
Thanks, I even put a heater in one of the tanks trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. I wondered if they were going through some sort of shock (coming from a nice softwater, low Ph, CO2-filled tank-- instantly into my hardwater, high Ph, no CO2 tank). I don't have anything to add Nitrate with tonight, but I try to open a few OC+ gelcaps and dump the little balls into the water to see if I can get some Nitrogen to diffuse through the little membranes into the column.
Mannie Bothans is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 01:43 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Mannie Bothans's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 210
http://infographics.myaquacalc.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/plant-deficiency-labele

I just found this. It says that old growth leaf transparency is a sign of CO2 deficiency. Is there any hope that they can adapt to a new environment if I dose proper ferts and get the photoperiod right?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	plant-deficiency-labeled2.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	40.9 KB
ID:	36631  

Mannie Bothans is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 01:46 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Mannie Bothans's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 210
I brought home some anubias from PetSmart. I thought it looked so cool, the veins were so much darker than the lighter leaves-- it gave it the appearance of a unique texture, reminded me of a coffeefolia-- looked awesome.

(According to the chart they were just magnesium deficient.)
Mannie Bothans is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 02:01 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York City.
Posts: 1,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannie Bothans View Post
I just found this. It says that old growth leaf transparency is a sign of CO2 deficiency. Is there any hope that they can adapt to a new environment if I dose proper ferts and get the photoperiod right?

I believe Petsmart sells Seachem Flourish Comprehensive. I would use that instead. If not Seachem, I would use http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...3715&lmdn=Fish

It does contain nitrogen. CO2 deficiency generally leads to stunt growth and algae breakout. Here is another chart:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_UlxSzABwSoo/...deficiency.jpg
tetra73 is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 02:02 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (16/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: New York City.
Posts: 1,974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannie Bothans View Post
I brought home some anubias from PetSmart. I thought it looked so cool, the veins were so much darker than the lighter leaves-- it gave it the appearance of a unique texture, reminded me of a coffeefolia-- looked awesome.

(According to the chart they were just magnesium deficient.)

More than likely they don't dose any trace elements.
tetra73 is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Mannie Bothans's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 210
Is cutting back the lighting enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetra73 View Post
Thanks. That really confirms it-- I have those white deposits that this chart says is CO2 deficiency.

When everything gets into my tank, these same lights will be 24 inches away from the bottom of the aquarium, but in the meantime, I guess I have to balance things better. Slow growth is fine with me, but I just don't want the plants to die before I get them into my first aquarium.

The OC+ tabs are supposed to contain:
Total Nitrogen (N)†.................................... 15.0%
8.0% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
7.0% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)†......................... 9.0%
Soluble Potash K2O)†................................... 2.0%
Calcium (Ca)† ............................................ 1.9%
Magnesium (Mg) (Total)† ............................. 1.4%
0.7% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
Sulfur (S) (Total)† .......................................4.0%
4.0% Combined Sulfur (S)
Boron (B)† ................................................. 0.02%
Copper (Cu) (Total) ..................................... 0.05%
0.05% Water Soluble Copper (Cu)
Iron (Fe) (Total)† ........................................ 0.45%
0.42% Water Soluble Iron (Fe).
0.03% Chelated Iron (Fe)
Manganese (Mn) (Total)† .............................. 0.06%
0.06% Water Soluble Manganese (Mn)
Molybdenum (Mo)† ....................................... 0.02%
Zinc (Zn) (Total) ......................................... 0.05%
0.019% Water Soluble Zinc (Zn)†
Derived from: Polymer-Coated: Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate, Ammonium Sulfate,
Calcium Phosphate, Potassium Sulfate, Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Chloride, Magnesium Oxide,
Magnesium Sulfate, Calcium Carbonate, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron EDTA, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc
Sulfate, Boric Acid, Sodium Molybdate; Copper Sulfate and Zinc Oxide.
†The Nitrogen, Phosphate, Potash, Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfur, Boron, Iron, Manganese,
Molybdenum, and Zinc sources have been coated to provide 12.7% coated slow-release
Nitrogen (N), 7.6% coated slow-release Available Phosphate (P2O5), 10.2% coated slowrelease
Soluble Potash (K2O), 1.6% coated slow-release Calcium (Ca), 0.6% coated slowrelease
Magnesium (Mg), 3.4% coated slow-release Sulfur (S), 0.017% coated slow-release
Boron (B), 0.38% coated slow-release Iron (Fe), 0.051% coated slow-release Manganese (Mn),
0.017% coated slow-release Molybdenum (Mo), 0.019% coated slow-release Zinc (Zn).
Mannie Bothans is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 10:45 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Sharkfood's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa
Posts: 2,536
in my experience, transparent leaves caused by a carbon shortage will manifest on new growth as opposed to old leaves.
Sharkfood is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 12:18 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
HD Blazingwolf's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 4,907
you don't HAVE to have c02.. less light is the key for no c02.. low light levels mean elss requirements for fertilizer. which root tabs can properly provide (in a low light tank) once roots grow and get settled in.

i have a 10 gallon shrimpy tank. now has no c02. marineland single bright led which is on for 10 hours. mineralized top soil. i dose micro mix and gh booster once per week and that's it i use no root tabs

turn down ur lights, use lower wattage, shorter photoperiod. continue dosing the liquid plant food in a small amount daily. i don't know what size tank u have but i'd quess between 1-3 ml per day give me a tank size for more accurate dosage

EDIT: u have to have c02.. just not injecting c02 with low light. to be clear

Sump Pimp #7

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
HD Blazingwolf is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 01:25 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Mannie Bothans's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 210
Thanks. I think I will get them into my real tank as soon as the aquasoil arrives. I can drain the tank and move it with the plants in it when our flooring arrives on November 9.

The real tank will be 56 gallons, but right now my PetSmart plants are in a 10 gallon tote, my Herns plants are in a 5 gallon aquarium, and my Supert and Darkoon plants are in a five gallon bucket.

I'll also need to experiment with photoperiod length when they get into the aquasoil, my first aquarium will be 30 inches wide, 18 inches front to back, and 24 inches high.
Mannie Bothans is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 02:50 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
HD Blazingwolf's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 4,907
i've had the coralife fixtures and to be honest. they stink. especially if u have the 30 inch version because there aren't very many replacement bulbs out there.. the reflectors stink.

that being said..... the clear acrylic lens it comes with. i did this to mine back in the day.. spray it lightly with black paint. let it dry between passes.
and when i say lightly. i mean. MIST. like 10-12 inches away or more. i made 7 passes with mine

that will cut down the intensity a lot

Sump Pimp #7

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
HD Blazingwolf is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-26-2011, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Mannie Bothans's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 210
Never thought of that. If I did that, I could just not use that plastic piece on the big tank. I will try raising them up a bit, too. This morning, I noticed my red plants (Ludwigia Rubins) are going green.
Mannie Bothans is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome