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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-28-2011, 11:55 PM Thread Starter
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Help me plan a tank

I thought it would be interesting to get everyone on here to give some input to my new tank. I just built the stand and will be getting the tank within a week or two. I can't decided on 30 gallon breeder or 40 gallon breeder. They have the same foot print, but the 40 is 4 inches higher.

I don't know what kind of light or filtration I want to run. I have thought about CO2, but I need someone to break everything down for me like I'm a complete idiot. Whenever I read about co2 systems I get completely confused. Also, I don't have any desire to do EI dosing, so if I go the co2 route, then I'm still going to keep the light low, so that I don't have to dose as much. I'm really wanting to stick with just a few plant species and do a really nice aquascape as opposed to just throwing in plants and having a jungle. I would like to do something similar to this

So throw out your suggestions please.

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2011, 01:15 AM
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Easier said than done, my friend...

And I'd go with the 30b size. Long an low, that's the way to go. Not that a 30b is exactly long and low' but longer and lower than the 40b.

"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." -- Steve Jobs

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2011, 01:56 AM
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You could use a pair of T5HO bulbs, widely separated, maybe 8-10 inches apart, and raised about 25-30 inches above the substrate, if you don't want to use CO2 and EI fertilizing. For a 30B tank, a couple of T8 bulbs separated by that same distance, and sitting on top of the tank, would also work for a non-CO2 tank.

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2011, 02:26 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geniusdudekiran View Post
Easier said than done, my friend...

And I'd go with the 30b size. Long an low, that's the way to go. Not that a 30b is exactly long and low' but longer and lower than the 40b.
They are both 38L x 18w. the only difference is the 30 is 12" high and the 40 is 16" high. At least that's what everything I've read says about them.


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Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
You could use a pair of T5HO bulbs, widely separated, maybe 8-10 inches apart, and raised about 25-30 inches above the substrate, if you don't want to use CO2 and EI fertilizing. For a 30B tank, a couple of T8 bulbs separated by that same distance, and sitting on top of the tank, would also work for a non-CO2 tank.
I think regardless of anything I'm going to have to have a glass top on the tank, so a do you think that a hanging light would penetrate the top?

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2011, 03:37 PM
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A few months ago someone reported PAR measurements with and without a glass top on the tank. The light loss due to the glass, which wasn't really clean, was about 15% as I recall.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2011, 05:10 PM
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One nice thing about using low light is that even if you do decide to inject CO2, you can use much less than the typical 30-35ppm medium and high light tank owners usually strive for. A five or ten pound tank might last a year or even longer between fillings.

The 'scape you posted is mostly moss and Java fern which are low light staples. Anubias would be a good choice also, and is sometimes problematic in high light tanks. The majority of cryptocorynes do well in low light also, though they grow so slowly in those conditions they might seem dormant.

Personally, I like the idea of rocky moss tank similar to what you posted. Something like a Fluval 405, or Eheim 2217 (flow is lower so maybe run 2) or the Rena equivalent would be plenty for filtration, and can be used as your CO2 reactor since your injection rate will probably be on the slow side. You could keep shrimp in the tank, and with nothing but moss, java, and shrimp there would be no need to heat the tank. With low light, low CO2 injection levels, low bioload, and cooler water, the environment wouldn't be very conducive to algae growth when compared to the typical aquarium.

Low light would require much less fertilizer if any at all. Moss barely needs any nutrients when the light levels are low, and rarely needs trimming. An army of shrimp and good water flow should keep it from accumulating detritus.

Whatever you decide to do, be sure and keep a tank journal so we can all watch your tank progress.

Add: I would go with the 40B also. 12" is too shallow to get that lake, stream look. Everything ends up looking "swampy" in my opinion. (Not that there is anything wrong with that look, but I don't get the feeling that is what you're going for.)
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2011, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
A few months ago someone reported PAR measurements with and without a glass top on the tank. The light loss due to the glass, which wasn't really clean, was about 15% as I recall.
Thanks for the info Hoppy! You are the light guru. lol I really don't think I can go with the t5ho right now. They are too dang expensive. At least all the ones I looked at. Since I would need 2. If I could get by with 1, then I would probably do it. But with 1 fixture I don't think it would get enough spread on that wide of a tank. HOwever, since it would be way up in the air, it just might.

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Originally Posted by Sharkfood View Post
One nice thing about using low light is that even if you do decide to inject CO2, you can use much less than the typical 30-35ppm medium and high light tank owners usually strive for. A five or ten pound tank might last a year or even longer between fillings.

The 'scape you posted is mostly moss and Java fern which are low light staples. Anubias would be a good choice also, and is sometimes problematic in high light tanks. The majority of cryptocorynes do well in low light also, though they grow so slowly in those conditions they might seem dormant.

Personally, I like the idea of rocky moss tank similar to what you posted. Something like a Fluval 405, or Eheim 2217 (flow is lower so maybe run 2) or the Rena equivalent would be plenty for filtration, and can be used as your CO2 reactor since your injection rate will probably be on the slow side. You could keep shrimp in the tank, and with nothing but moss, java, and shrimp there would be no need to heat the tank. With low light, low CO2 injection levels, low bioload, and cooler water, the environment wouldn't be very conducive to algae growth when compared to the typical aquarium.

Low light would require much less fertilizer if any at all. Moss barely needs any nutrients when the light levels are low, and rarely needs trimming. An army of shrimp and good water flow should keep it from accumulating detritus.

Whatever you decide to do, be sure and keep a tank journal so we can all watch your tank progress.

Add: I would go with the 40B also. 12" is too shallow to get that lake, stream look. Everything ends up looking "swampy" in my opinion. (Not that there is anything wrong with that look, but I don't get the feeling that is what you're going for.)
Sharkfood, thanks for the reply. I was curious how much co2 would help in a low light tank. Would it be worth the investment? I think the main reason I would want it, is so I can have a nice ground cover like hc or something. I know this probably sounds dumb, but both of my tanks now have hob filters. I"m a little scared of the canister filters. I'm afraid of coming home to water everywhere or making a mess during water changes. I don't know exactly how the connections are so, my paranoia, might just be my ignorance of them.

As for plants, I'm leaning towards needle leaf java fern, weeping moss or something similar, mini pellia, some val nana or something that looks similar, and a carpeting plant. The carpeting plant probably isn't much of an option though without the co2.
And after thinking about it... the 40 breeder seems to be the best choice to scape with.

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-29-2011, 11:24 PM Thread Starter
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Oh and I will definitely do a journal on this tank.

Anyone else have any opinions, please feel free to let me know. I want input on this.
As for inhabitants, it will be shrimp only and at the most some cpd's. I think like cooler water anyways.

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2011, 12:08 AM
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I don't really have any experience with HC, but it's my understanding that it doesn't really thrive under low light. There are other options though, and CO2 can only help.

Both C. parva and E. tennelus can handle pretty low light, although parva likes more light than other Crypts from my experience. (If you over light it it will grow brown leaves similar to many Crypts.)

Heck, moss carpets look really good too.

There are 2 main reasons I suggested keeping CO2 low:

1. Shrimp seem to have issues with it more than fish.

2. Plants aren't growing as quickly under low light, so their nutrient demands (including carbon) are less.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2011, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkfood View Post
I don't really have any experience with HC, but it's my understanding that it doesn't really thrive under low light. There are other options though, and CO2 can only help.

Both C. parva and E. tennelus can handle pretty low light, although parva likes more light than other Crypts from my experience. (If you over light it it will grow brown leaves similar to many Crypts.)

Heck, moss carpets look really good too.

There are 2 main reasons I suggested keeping CO2 low:

1. Shrimp seem to have issues with it more than fish.

2. Plants aren't growing as quickly under low light, so their nutrient demands (including carbon) are less.
I think a moss carpet would be a pain to keep up with. I'll have to do some more reading about hc. I really like the way it looks. I have c. parva in my tank for now for 3 years and it has double but that is about it. It has to be the slowest growing plant ever. lol

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-01-2011, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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Doing a journal on this and a few other tanks combined. Here

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