Copepods (cyclops) in new plants. The elephant in the room. - The Planted Tank Forum
 6Likes
  • 1 Post By Mark Fisher
  • 2 Post By Blue Ridge Reef
  • 2 Post By Mark Fisher
  • 1 Post By Blue Ridge Reef
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-22-2020, 11:09 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 5
Thumbs down Copepods (cyclops) in new plants. The elephant in the room.

Right off the bat, I want to address everyone who is going to reply and tell me that copepods are great; they're like free food, the sign of a healthy tank, etc. Yes, yes, I know that's the standard line of thinking.

But like a lot of things in this hobby, some of the minutiae is often overlooked entirely. There are so many people who will get new fish and insist on running a strict quarantine for weeks, or get new plants and quarantine and dip for snails, yet have no concern for those tiny cyclops that you can barely see (and can't kill...really, they're almost invincible).

Here's the thing. Cyclops are intermediates for a number of really, really annoying parasites. Nematodes, flatworms, and potentially others. In Africa, they spread Guinea Worm (which is an absolutely disgusting human parasite that grows into a 3 foot worm that has to be physically pulled out of a boil on your body). I know, that has nothing to do with our aquariums, but hey, at least it got your attention for the next part

More relevant to our hobby: They spread callamanus worms. They also are what spreads tapeworms.

For people who spend a ton of time trying to treat callamanus worms, only to have them mysteriously come back later... well, if you have cyclops in your water, they eat the callamanus larvae, and the fish eat the cyclops and develop the worms. Unless you eliminate the cyclops entirely, this will ALWAYS be standing in the way of getting callamanus out of your tank. Yes, there is one species of callamanus that skips the copepod host entirely, and if you have those, then the copepods are neither helping nor hindering. But...cyclops also are what transmits tapeworms to fish. Same problem with that one. And they're just one more variable for disease, so they're absolutely not the "harmless" critters like people like to think.

My display tank is currently copepod free. I really don't want to introduce them. The val. I received from Aquarium Coop last week is absolutely run over with detritus worms and cyclops, and I have tried everything to eliminate the cyclops in the quarantine tank with no success. It's like these things are invincible. And now I'm feeling like I'm just going to have to toss it and try ordering elsewhere in hopes that I don't get cyclops hitchhikers.
fermentedfunk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 03:18 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Mark Fisher's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rockport, Texas
Posts: 387
Relax. You are waaaaaay overthinking this.

There are also bacteria and viruses in your tank! Do you stress about that, as well?
Blue Ridge Reef likes this.
Mark Fisher is online now  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 03:30 PM
snails are your friend
 
Blue Ridge Reef's Avatar
 
PTrader: (13/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,494
In theory, it would sound nice to have complete control over every single fauna and flora that goes into our aquariums right down to the single celled organisms but even with the strictest quarantine and medication protocols some things are bound to get through. With any fish load at all, I'd expect you to see few 'pods after the ecosystem settles. But introducing microorganisms is darn near out of our control unless every plant is tissue cultured and every single thing is sterilized before going in. As Omar from The Wire said, "You play in the dirt, you gonna get dirty."
Mark Fisher and Asteroid like this.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
Blue Ridge Reef is online now  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-23-2020, 04:32 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Mark Fisher's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rockport, Texas
Posts: 387
Also, name an organism that doesn't serve as a host for something else. You can't.
Mark Fisher is online now  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 11:45 AM
Algae Grower
 
DeathFromBelow's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by fermentedfunk View Post
My display tank is currently copepod free. I really don't want to introduce them. The val. I received from Aquarium Coop last week is absolutely run over with detritus worms and cyclops, and I have tried everything to eliminate the cyclops in the quarantine tank with no success. It's like these things are invincible. And now I'm feeling like I'm just going to have to toss it and try ordering elsewhere in hopes that I don't get cyclops hitchhikers.

I feel your pain. I've been doing some experiments myself, though my problem is seed shrimp. My fish in the infested tank (serpaes, neons, and corys) don't seem to eat them and they reproduce like crazy. I have scarlet temples and some other stem plants that I want to propagate but I don't want all my tanks to look like living snowglobes.

What seems to have worked for me is etofenprox. I used Hartz Ultra Guard for dogs from Walmart. It's toxic to fish and inverts so obviously you don't want anything but plants in the quarantine tank. I put in a whole packet, stirred it around to get it all over the tank, and within 24 hours all the critters were dead. Apparently it degrades in water and under light (undetectable in 7-14 days) and isn't significantly absorbed or mobile in plant tissues, but I don't know if that only applies to terrestrial plants. For now I'm just letting my clippings grow out and watching for any resurgence of the bugs. It may be a month or two before I reintroduce them to a tank with fish.
DeathFromBelow is online now  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 06:59 PM
snails are your friend
 
Blue Ridge Reef's Avatar
 
PTrader: (13/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,494
Peroxide at 5 ML/gallon will wipe most pods out without leaving anything residual behind if you don't have shrimp, snails or fish in the tank yet, as will cranking the heater to about 95f overnight. Both of these will impact your biological filter and there are just so many fish that can do the job that it shouldn't be necessary. Most of my tanks are shrimp only, and I'll occasionally add a group of juvenile guppies (or juvie white clouds in cold water tanks) if the pods are getting thick. Within 2 weeks, I typically can't find a single one. They do repopulate when the fish are removed, but if you had fish in there full-time I'd expect the populations would stay small and tucked away. Very surprised serpae and neon tetras aren't eating seed shrimp. With only the information that I have, I'd be inclined to feed less.
GrampsGrunge likes this.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
Blue Ridge Reef is online now  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-25-2020, 08:09 PM
Algae Grower
 
DeathFromBelow's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
Peroxide at 5 ML/gallon will wipe most pods out without leaving anything residual behind if you don't have shrimp, snails or fish in the tank yet, as will cranking the heater to about 95f overnight...
Very surprised serpae and neon tetras aren't eating seed shrimp. With only the information that I have, I'd be inclined to feed less.
I've tried peroxide and high temps in my test/quarantine setup. They always rebound. In the infested tank I see the Serpaes get one every now and then, but they spit them back out. If they're killing them they aren't having any significant impact on their numbers. Every now and then the population will drop off for awhile, then they're blooming again. Reducing feeding doesn't seem to make a difference, they're constantly grazing on biofilm, algae on the back wall of the tank, and my anubias (grr). The infested tank is dirted with a gravel cap so I'm sure they're munching around down in the substrate, too.

It's possible I've misidentified my critters, but they look like seed shrimp to me. Little shells with a seam and hairs on one end:



I really didn't want to have to try a chemical pesticide but I'm basically down to that or copper. I figured a short lived, plant safe pesticide would be less likely to impact these quarantined plants than copper would. Thus far it seems to have worked. If they don't rebound again I'll eventually pull the fish from the infested tank and nuke it, too.

Last edited by DeathFromBelow; 05-26-2020 at 06:02 AM. Reason: Image
DeathFromBelow is online now  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-27-2020, 02:48 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
GrampsGrunge's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Diatom Alley, Lakeside, OR
Posts: 1,453
Considering I used to culture Ostracods for my breeding pairs of dwarf Ciclids, and these were wild caught Ostracods l collected a rocky outcrop island in the Willamette River, which should have been infesting all of my fish big time.


My home's well source has Cyclops. I know this because I can take a brand new, never filled tank, put absolutely clean substrate in and when it's about 3/4's cycled the Cyclops start showing up before even the plants are placed.


Anecdotal at best example, but I don't have infested fish, and I'm keeping a self sustaining school of Rosy barbs in an outdoor water trough that has to have both Ostracods and Cyclops within.


A lot of shrimp breeders say that Seed-shrimp and Cyclops are signs of a well balanced aquaria biology. The Ostracods can become somewhat overwhelming at times from my experience generally because, like snails, the external food sources added to help with breeding shrimp also boost the numbers of the smaller detritivores.


Personally don't see them as an issue as long as you keep your substrate somewhat vacuumed.

Starting small, keeping it simple..(?)
250 gallon stock tank, "pond"
20 gallon H CBS Shrimp tank

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
GrampsGrunge is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-27-2020, 05:35 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Jeffww's Avatar
 
PTrader: (11/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Albany, CA
Posts: 2,502
I've cured camallanus multiple times before using levamisole. Didn't do anything about the copepods and it has never come back after the full course.

Fluval Spec V
7x Microsynodontis sp (1)

10g Terrarium
1x Cranwelli Horned Frog
Jeffww is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 07:19 AM
Planted Member
 
HairyNoseWombat's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 176
Hi

Plain old Soda water (Carbonated water) works well in killing pest snails and the like but not eggs.
HairyNoseWombat is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 05-28-2020, 04:13 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffww View Post
I've cured camallanus multiple times before using levamisole. Didn't do anything about the copepods and it has never come back after the full course.
One species of callamanus (cotti) doesn't have an intermediate host (so the copepods don't apply to that species)-- the others do, though.
fermentedfunk is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome