I am the only one switching to easy green? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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I am the only one switching to easy green?

I am a new member but I have been watching and reading on this forum for a while now. Finally decided to dive in and get involved as i think this is the best community for my kind of fish keeping.

I wanted to start a thread about fertilizers. I know there have been many threads on this before but I think this one will be slightly different. Usually people start with the most simple ferts (all in one or macro + micro), as I did, and then ramp their way up to NPK + micros then to EI.

For the past year or more, my preferred system has been a low daily dose of the seachem line. I got some easy green to try out on one of my breeding tanks and I have come to love it so much that I am fully switching over to the easy system and supplementing for deficiencies when i see them.

The one pump/10gallon is just so fast and easy I couldn't justify doing the whole seachem regime. I want to know if I am the only who has found themselves going back to the simple all in ones.

Yes EI is the cheapest route but I would argue the most work (mixing, dosing, waterchanging ect.), seachem is the most expensive but IMO the most comprehensive line backed by the best science, but easy green is, well easy. Being somewhat of a geek (I'm a career scientist) I love to tinker and test water and mix up the perfect ratio of ferts in my graduated cylinders, which is why it pains me to say I'm switching over. It's cheaper than seachem, less work than EI, and so darn easy... My hands are tied

Am I alone?
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post #2 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 08:15 PM
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Try NilocG Thrive, a bottle that treats 10k gallons is $9 less than easy green. But itís also more concentrated than easy green on most elements. Fe for instance is .13% in EG, Thrive is .42% but nitrate is about same in both.
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post #3 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 09:32 PM
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You could always buy the salts then make your own solution.

Same thing you are buying, but at a fraction of the cost. I could go make a bottle in about 2 minutes, about the same time it takes to place the order.

If you could see how much dry fertilizer is in a bottle of Easygreen/Thrive, you would realize you are mostly paying for water/marketing/shipping.

But in the end, if it seems easier to you, then do what works for you.


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post #4 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 09:34 PM
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How is Seachem backed by the "best science" exactly?

Easy Green is OK, it's just pretty low in most things from what I understand. Ive never actually tried it. Whether anything works is going to depend on the type of tank a person has.

If you're looking for EI levels of something, definitely go with a Thrive product, or Dennis Wong's APT EI in a bottle (amazon)


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post #5 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerpsAndHerbs View Post
I am a new member but I have been watching and reading on this forum for a while now. Finally decided to dive in and get involved as i think this is the best community for my kind of fish keeping.

I wanted to start a thread about fertilizers. I know there have been many threads on this before but I think this one will be slightly different. Usually people start with the most simple ferts (all in one or macro + micro), as I did, and then ramp their way up to NPK + micros then to EI.

For the past year or more, my preferred system has been a low daily dose of the seachem line. I got some easy green to try out on one of my breeding tanks and I have come to love it so much that I am fully switching over to the easy system and supplementing for deficiencies when i see them.

The one pump/10gallon is just so fast and easy I couldn't justify doing the whole seachem regime. I want to know if I am the only who has found themselves going back to the simple all in ones.

Yes EI is the cheapest route but I would argue the most work (mixing, dosing, waterchanging ect.), seachem is the most expensive but IMO the most comprehensive line backed by the best science, but easy green is, well easy. Being somewhat of a geek (I'm a career scientist) I love to tinker and test water and mix up the perfect ratio of ferts in my graduated cylinders, which is why it pains me to say I'm switching over. It's cheaper than seachem, less work than EI, and so darn easy... My hands are tied

Am I alone?
I tried Thrive for 8 months as a cheaper alternative to Seachem products. My plants have slowely declined over this period. I will go back to the Seachem line- despite its price- because I had such better results. I wonder if Easy Green would be a better "all-in-one" than Thrive. Hmmm. I might try it.
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post #6 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
I tried Thrive for 8 months as a cheaper alternative to Seachem products. My plants have slowely declined over this period. I will go back to the Seachem line- despite its price- because I had such better results. I wonder if Easy Green would be a better "all-in-one" than Thrive. Hmmm. I might try it.
Since the basic chemicals, for the most part, are identical and just in varying ratios, it would be interesting to know what was different in the Thrive from your particular Seachem dosing regimen that caused the decline. As you switch back to Seachem, it will be interesting to see if you actually get a rebound ...and what might be the cause.
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post #7 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-18-2020, 11:55 PM
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Since the basic chemicals, for the most part, are identical and just in varying ratios, it would be interesting to know what was different in the Thrive from your particular Seachem dosing regimen that caused the decline. As you switch back to Seachem, it will be interesting to see if you actually get a rebound ...and what might be the cause.
I could see the most difference in the growth of my anubias and java ferns. I had much more vigorous growth with the Seachem line. If that tells you anything.
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post #8 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 12:40 AM
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I could see the most difference in the growth of my anubias and java ferns. I had much more vigorous growth with the Seachem line. If that tells you anything.
If you were dosing their 3 macros and Flourish (comp), the main difference will be the ratios being altogether different. However, the Flourish Nitrogen is half complexed ammonium and plants do prefer that to NO3. Maybe the ferrous vs. ferric iron difference. Donít anubias benefit from a good supply of iron? Maybe the ferrous form is better/easier for them. More likely just the weightings difference. All speculation, of course, and I wonder if you would benefit from urea dosing.

Even more interesting since both of those plants are such slow growers and need only low levels of nutrients.
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post #9 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 02:13 AM
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FWIW I've been using Easy Green on all my tanks. I've had the best luck with it on my 20L low-tech basically some java moss and a plant that I'm not sure what it is, possibly Amazon sword

It's the leaf plant either side of the java moss.


It works ok on my 75g but I haven't dialed in the co2/lighting/ferts yet, close, I'm hoping my thinning out the Amason swords allowing them to get more light will help. We'll see. I have Tiger Lotus in that tank so I also add extra iron and periodically add some root tabs.

Also, Cory at Aquarium co-op recently had to raise his prices, so I'll have to see how they compare with what I can get locally. I may also look into the Niloc Thrive.

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post #10 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 04:33 AM
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Here is their mix per pump per 10 gallons
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0525.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	70.4 KB
ID:	898469
Would probably work for most low tech but low on phosphates and using edta iron would throw more ratios off for most peopleís phís in higher tech.


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post #11 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveKS View Post
Try NilocG Thrive, a bottle that treats 10k gallons is $9 less than easy green. But itís also more concentrated than easy green on most elements. Fe for instance is .13% in EG, Thrive is .42% but nitrate is about same in both.
According to their instructions Thrive is half as concentrated as Easy Green. Their 1L bottle is rated for half the amount of gallons treated of Easy Green. I may have to look into mixing my own. Does anyone have any feedback on how long a mix would last? Or is there no effective expiration with a mixed solution?

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post #12 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 03:47 PM Thread Starter
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How is Seachem backed by the "best science" exactly?

Easy Green is OK, it's just pretty low in most things from what I understand. Ive never actually tried it. Whether anything works is going to depend on the type of tank a person has.

If you're looking for EI levels of something, definitely go with a Thrive product, or Dennis Wong's APT EI in a bottle (amazon)
I suppose there is some room for debate about why seachem is backed by the best science, but I think if you actually look into how much real science is going into each product you will clearly see my point. Of all the brands of ferts mentioned in the thread so far, seachem is the only one with Chemistry PhD's on their pay roll and they are also the only ones with a full laboratory. After all the company is actually called seachem laboratories. They perform highly controlled studies and have 35 years worth of measurable data. Not a hill I am going to die on, but i don't think you can show me another company that puts as much scientific testing and real data behind their products (i.e. highly controlled and recorded).

I think any fertilizer will "work" in any tank, its more about the skill of the aquarist in knowing how to keep the balance. I have tried mixing the salts, I have tried seachem's line, I've tried easygreen ect... they all grow plants. My point with this thread is about where peoples priority lie? With "estimated index" (EI) as described and created by tom barr, the idea is that you estimate the amount needed and err on the side of too much but do a large (50%) water change at the end of each week to get rid of the excess.

I don't generally change water weekly in my tanks (controversial topic of course) so the estimated index method has me doing more work than all the other methods. Because powdered salts are SSOO concentrated, I find I cannot dial in the exact amount needed to dose the tanks to not have to do a water change. As hobbyists, when we use powdered salts in the small volumes we are making them up in, the standard deviation is very high. If you add a tenth of a gram more one week, or your scale rounds up a little, the amount of nutrients changes drastically requiring you to do the large water changes so you dont build up excess. Because seachem and easy green are made in such large batches, their standard deviation between batches is so small it is negligible. For that reason, i can use seachem very precisely so that I don't have excess nutrients require me to change water all the time. Similarly, the ratios of nutrients are very consistent in easy green so if I find three pumps of easy green plus one mL of seachem phosphate gives me growth without deficiencies or excess I am set and do not have to weigh and mix salts and change lots of water frequently.

Hopefully what I am trying to get across is making sense. EI is obviously the cheapest but I think you can see why it requires the most work for me. That is why my go to has been seachem for a long time, less work. I think if you look at the hobby as a whole, newbies use all in ones, guru's use either individual liquids (like seachem), or powders. I am of course speaking in generalities, but I think the cheap vs easy decision is one that plagues many long time hobbyists.

I personally have found the middle ground in Easy Green (pick any all in one) plus light supplementation as needed

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
I tried Thrive for 8 months as a cheaper alternative to Seachem products. My plants have slowely declined over this period. I will go back to the Seachem line- despite its price- because I had such better results. I wonder if Easy Green would be a better "all-in-one" than Thrive. Hmmm. I might try it.
You should try it! Depending on what plants you have you will still have to supplement something but since you are already doing seachem that will be super easy to dial in!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam the Slayer View Post
Here is their mix per pump per 10 gallons
Attachment 898469
Would probably work for most low tech but low on phosphates and using edta iron would throw more ratios off for most peopleís phís in higher tech.


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Iron and Phosphate mess all fertilizers up. They have the opposite charge of most of the chemicals in your ferts so they act like a magnet aggregating your fertilizers and precipitating them out of solution making them unavailable for plants to use. That is why people say not to dose macros and micros together, they basically cancel each other out. Also most of the phosphate that goes into your aquarium comes from the fish food, so personally I appreciate the low phosphates.

EDTA is a surfactant. We use it in the scientific field to break up cell membranes, or keep things in solution. That is the purpose of it in easy green. The EDTA is coupled to the maganese and the iron and the other heavy metals with positive charge, to keep them in solution so they do not ruin the whole mixture. That is why they are listed together on the label. Instead of just iron and magansese, it is Iron EDTA, and Maganese EDTA ect. That is why easy green is able to mix the macros and micros, where other brands dont. You will not get edta in your EI powders, and you dont want to add it straight because it will kill a lot of things (BB).

Cory said in a video a couple years back when he released easy green that it matters what order you add things in. You have to mix the Iron and EDTA separately, the maganese and EDTA separately, mix everything else separately, and then mix them together. This very special formulation is what makes easy green easy.

Like I said, I am a career scientist and I use EDTA in my lab often (as well as potassium nitrate, and potasium phosphate ect). This is probably far too in depth for the average aquarist but if anyone is going to appreciate this kind of information, I believe they are on this forum.

All ferts will grow plants when used in balance. It is a question of cost, amount of work, and user experience

Last edited by Darkblade48; 05-19-2020 at 04:19 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #13 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 04:27 PM
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I suppose there is some room for debate about why seachem is backed by the best science, but I think if you actually look into how much real science is going into each product you will clearly see my point. Of all the brands of ferts mentioned in the thread so far, seachem is the only one with Chemistry PhD's on their pay roll and they are also the only ones with a full laboratory. After all the company is actually called seachem laboratories. They perform highly controlled studies and have 35 years worth of measurable data. Not a hill I am going to die on, but i don't think you can show me another company that puts as much scientific testing and real data behind their products (i.e. highly controlled and recorded).
Yeah I get what you're saying. But...Ive seen plenty of chemists who know all about molecules but cant grow sensitive plants. Many have been on these forums. They are usually the ones with the strongest opinions. They use big words but for some reason never seem to be able to show a nice tank of their own. It's funny

Scientific data, controlled and recorded, isnt much use if it cant be applied in real time to a real aquarium. More often than not...it cant.

You said it, later on in your post. A lot comes down to the aquarist and how they handle a particular set up. Ferts are rarely the deciding factor. Of course different set ups have different requirements. Thrive might work great for one person, Seachem liquids might work better for another.

All plants need the same nutrients, in the same general ratios. Add more or add less. Beyond that, there are more important things to look after

If easy green works well for you then by all means use it.


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post #14 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah I get what you're saying. But...Ive seen plenty of chemists who know all about molecules but cant grow sensitive plants. Many have been on these forums. They are usually the ones with the strongest opinions. They use big words but for some reason never seem to be able to show a nice tank of their own. It's funny

Scientific data, controlled and recorded, isnt much use if it cant be applied in real time to a real aquarium. More often than not...it cant.

You said it, later on in your post. A lot comes down to the aquarist and how they handle a particular set up. Ferts are rarely the deciding factor. Of course different set ups have different requirements. Thrive might work great for one person, Seachem liquids might work better for another.

All plants need the same nutrients, in the same general ratios. Add more or add less. Beyond that, there are more important things to look after

If easy green works well for you then by all means use it.
I see and respect your point, all talk and no walk. I'll be sure to tag you when I get around to starting my tank journals
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post #15 of 112 (permalink) Old 05-19-2020, 04:56 PM
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I see and respect your point, all talk and no walk. I'll be sure to tag you when I get around to starting my tank journals
Oh I wasnt throwing that at you, at all. Its just typical behavior that always seems to be the case. My point was, just because Seachem has a chemist on the payroll doesnt make it any better than anything else.

And yes please make a journal, everyone loves reading journals and how somebody is doing things, including myself. I hppe your tanks do great!


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