New member and discouraged - The Planted Tank Forum
 16Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Hi, I fell for this hobby pretty bad around Christmas and did a lot of research and dipped my toes into my first planted tank. I fishless cycled a 20 gallon long and planted it to the brim. I had a small community tank thriving and it was wonderful..so I decided to upgrade my tank after 3 months so I could have more room to plant and to make more educated choices on substrate and plants.

Well here I am 2 weeks after upgrading wanting to give up the hobby that I have now spent a small fortune on. Despite moving a quarter of the old substrate and the filter media my cycle is in a crash or mini cycle. On top of this I had ordered new fish shortly after I updated and thought the cycle was ok. So now I doubled my bioload into this unstable environment. My mystery snails are crawling out of the water and I stepped on one. Two fish have jumped out And died, I do daily 30 percent water changes and my parameters are stuck at ammonia: 0, nitrites: 0.25, nitrates: 20 ph: 6.8 temp is 75f
Iím exhausted and donít want to even look at this tank anymore. I have emailed and tried contacting every fish store thatís still open near me for filter media and one grudgingly gave me a single ceramic ring. I dose prime daily after the water change. Besides the suicide jumps, everyone looks normal for the moment.

Stock is
Cpds 12
Harlequin rasboras 12
Panda Cory 14
Mystery Snails 2

I can answer with more details if you need any. Sorry this is my first post.

Sorry forgot to add the new tank is a 44 gallon
Discusluv likes this.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 05-13-2020 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
Rockish is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 06:14 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Discusluv's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Elk Grove, California
Posts: 4,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockish View Post
Hi, I fell for this hobby pretty bad around Christmas and did a lot of research and dipped my toes into my first planted tank. I fishless cycled a 20 gallon long and planted it to the brim. I had a small community tank thriving and it was wonderful..so I decided to upgrade my tank after 3 months so I could have more room to plant and to make more educated choices on substrate and plants.

Well here I am 2 weeks after upgrading wanting to give up the hobby that I have now spent a small fortune on. Despite moving a quarter of the old substrate and the filter media my cycle is in a crash or mini cycle. On top of this I had ordered new fish shortly after I updated and thought the cycle was ok. So now I doubled my bioload into this unstable environment. My mystery snails are crawling out of the water and I stepped on one. Two fish have jumped out And died, I do daily 30 percent water changes and my parameters are stuck at ammonia: 0, nitrites: 0.25, nitrates: 20 ph: 6.8 temp is 75f
I’m exhausted and don’t want to even look at this tank anymore. I have emailed and tried contacting every fish store that’s still open near me for filter media and one grudgingly gave me a single ceramic ring. I dose prime daily after the water change. Besides the suicide jumps, everyone looks normal for the moment.

Stock is
Cpds 12
Harlequin rasboras 12
Panda Cory 14
Mystery Snails 2

I can answer with more details if you need any. Sorry this is my first post.
I know it can be discouraging when this happens, but--- if I could make a list of the discouraging losses I have had in my 30 years of fish-keeping....
It happens-chin up. There will be more joys than losses. Give this hobby time enough to show you that.


Now, as a beginner, I can understand how you thought that cycled media from your other tank would give you an "insta-cycle" in your newly set-up tank. It is so often repeated by even the most experienced aquarists. In all my years of fish-keeping, even using cycled media from my other tanks, i have never had a tank cycle in less than 2 weeks. So, your discouragement is from unrealistic expectations. This, and making it hard on yourself by adding fish to a tank that wasnt ready for them.



But, you can keep these fish safe by upping the volume of your water changes daily. I have cycled my tanks with fish-in (discus) many times when I didnt want to introduce pathogens from another cycled tank through media.

Or, just recently, I added a pair of Rams to an uncycled tank where they had fry and I raised these fry for 2 months in this tank. The trick is that you are the filter- through daily water changes you are both the biological and mechanical filter until the actual filter is "seeded" and does this on its own.



If 30% daily water changes are not doing it, you need to up your volume to 50%-75% daily until the biological filter establishes itself.

Yes, these water changes will be exhausting, but-- under the circumstances, with livestock- they are necessary. But, you could try to enjoy them as well: explore the life that you are developing in this glass box of yours. The fish, the plants, the snails, take a close look and lean in. There are some great things to see going on in there.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Amy
Discusluv is online now  
post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-11-2020, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
I don’t know how to reply to you directly but thank you. You’re right. I needed to hear that.
Discusluv likes this.
Rockish is offline  
 
post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-12-2020, 06:12 PM
Newbie
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1
Aquariums have so many inter-related parameters. Change any one thing and several other things have to adjust, and there's stress in that process. It's really mind-boggling! Hope you reach some new milestones with the tank in the near future.
Elmer42 is offline  
post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-13-2020, 05:42 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Bettatail's Avatar
 
PTrader: (89/98%)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Pleasanton, CA
Posts: 2,762
More than likely what brings you into this hobby is because of the attraction from the peaceful scene of a planted tank, but once you get involved, it is something else.

nature is perfect in its own way, but when you want to move the nature into a planted tank in your house, your sense of "perfect" and the scene you are trying to create is only a small fraction of the natural state that appear in specific time and place in the true wild.
So accept the ugly and the mistakes, they are part of nature that you are not in control, and to "guide" your planted tank towards the direction you want it to be appear, you are actually trying to understand the true nature in the process, and I believe this is the core and most interesting part in this hobby.
Desert Pupfish likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Canon Pimp Club #17
Bettatail is online now  
post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-15-2020, 09:41 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 141
Community, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't plants absorb ammonia and nitrite material as well as nitrates? If that's the case, could adding fast growing plants like water lettuce for the next few weeks help resolve their problem? I guess it could be an issue if the plants outcompete the bacteria but I doubt they would...
Jah410 is offline  
post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 01:27 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jah410 View Post
Community, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't plants absorb ammonia and nitrite material as well as nitrates? If that's the case, could adding fast growing plants like water lettuce for the next few weeks help resolve their problem? I guess it could be an issue if the plants outcompete the bacteria but I doubt they would...
Thanks! I just ordered a bunch more plants that were quick growing for this reason. I’ve upped my water changes to 50 percent daily and now I’m hovering around 0 ammonia and .50 nitrites.
The plants get here Monday. I hope it helps.
Desert Pupfish likes this.
Rockish is offline  
post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 01:50 PM
Algae Grower
 
zmartin's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 98
Rockish - think you are doing everything correctly to recover the tank. Regular water changes and max out on the plants. Just checking you are dosing the tank with your water changes with Seachem prime to neutralise the ammonia and nitrites.
zmartin is offline  
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 02:24 PM
Algae Grower
 
P.Isley's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Chicago
Posts: 59
If you are having cycle problems it can be really helpful to be adding nitorbacter and nitrosomonas to your tank (if you aren't already). There are several brands but you can pick up TopFin Readistart Nitrifying Bacteria starter at PetsMart is readily available and cheap.

I recently moved a 10 gallon from one room to another and woke up four days later to an opaque white tank you could barely see through (bacterial bloom). UGH. Now the Ammonia and Nitrite are gone, but I have new algae everywhere! It happens with ALL new tanks and it can be really tough.

Hang in there and keep things stable and regular in your tank as much as possible. Regular water changes, no big changes in aquascaping, filter equipment (do rinse/change the filter media on a regular schedule), or massive fish additions. Your tank will settle in. One day you will wake and realize that you have created this beautiful little water ecosystem, and it is thriving with hardly any work at all!
P.Isley is offline  
post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 03:26 PM
Algae Grower
 
sbank's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Austin, TX USA
Posts: 65
In addition to the good advice already provided let me suggest a particular product along the lines @P.Isley mentioned. Fritz Turbostart 700 is sold refrigerated at LFS. Shake the bottle well and pour the required amount directly onto your HOB media or sponge filter, or pour into the water column near the intake tube if you're using a canister. We've had success cycling multiple tanks in less than a week. This product is good bacteria and is dependent on an ammonia source, which won't be an issue with fish already in the tank.
For anyone looking to try this on a fishless new setup, you'll want to first add ammonia or fish food and get the ammonia level to an appropriate range before adding the Turbostart bacteria.

One other thing to think about is your tap water. It sounds like you are filling tap directly into the tank and adding Prime then. Yes, Prime works quickly, but if you can conveniently age your water in a barrel overnight, or even for a few hours, you can Prime it in the barrel, add an air stone to oxygenate and the resulting water might be less stressful for your fish. Depending on your source water, this process may allow some harmful gasses to gas off from the water. An important note, Prime only binds for about 48 hours, so if you age water for a number of days, you'll want to add Prime and give it a good stir before adding to the tank.

Hang in there, bro...you'll feel much better in a few days!

Walking the tightrope of discus in a high tech planted tank.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
sbank is offline  
post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 03:50 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by zmartin View Post
Rockish - think you are doing everything correctly to recover the tank. Regular water changes and max out on the plants. Just checking you are dosing the tank with your water changes with Seachem prime to neutralise the ammonia and nitrites.
I do use prime with each water change. I currently do a 50 percent change and redose daily for the entire volume of the tank to cover detoxifying nitrites. I hope prime doesn’t prevent my bacteria culture from developing, that was my only concern.
P.Isley likes this.
Rockish is offline  
post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.Isley View Post
If you are having cycle problems it can be really helpful to be adding nitorbacter and nitrosomonas to your tank (if you aren't already). There are several brands but you can pick up TopFin Readistart Nitrifying Bacteria starter at PetsMart is readily available and cheap.

I recently moved a 10 gallon from one room to another and woke up four days later to an opaque white tank you could barely see through (bacterial bloom). UGH. Now the Ammonia and Nitrite are gone, but I have new algae everywhere! It happens with ALL new tanks and it can be really tough.

Hang in there and keep things stable and regular in your tank as much as possible. Regular water changes, no big changes in aquascaping, filter equipment (do rinse/change the filter media on a regular schedule), or massive fish additions. Your tank will settle in. One day you will wake and realize that you have created this beautiful little water ecosystem, and it is thriving with hardly any work at all!
Thanks for sharing. I can’t wait to move past this.
P.Isley likes this.
Rockish is offline  
post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sbank View Post
In addition to the good advice already provided let me suggest a particular product along the lines @P.Isley mentioned. Fritz Turbostart 700 is sold refrigerated at LFS. Shake the bottle well and pour the required amount directly onto your HOB media or sponge filter, or pour into the water column near the intake tube if you're using a canister. We've had success cycling multiple tanks in less than a week. This product is good bacteria and is dependent on an ammonia source, which won't be an issue with fish already in the tank.
For anyone looking to try this on a fishless new setup, you'll want to first add ammonia or fish food and get the ammonia level to an appropriate range before adding the Turbostart bacteria.

One other thing to think about is your tap water. It sounds like you are filling tap directly into the tank and adding Prime then. Yes, Prime works quickly, but if you can conveniently age your water in a barrel overnight, or even for a few hours, you can Prime it in the barrel, add an air stone to oxygenate and the resulting water might be less stressful for your fish. Depending on your source water, this process may allow some harmful gasses to gas off from the water. An important note, Prime only binds for about 48 hours, so if you age water for a number of days, you'll want to add Prime and give it a good stir before adding to the tank.

Hang in there, bro...you'll feel much better in a few days!
Ok so I currently am dosing stability with each water change but I’m not really noticing a difference. I did buy a bottle of tetra safe start and a bottle of fritz zyme 7 and haven’t used either one because I’m scared of just making this worse at this point.

I’m also trying to fishless cycle an extra hob filter I have for my quarantine tank on a 5 gallon with pure ammonia. I figure if I can race and get that one cycled first I can add it to my main tank and stop the insanity. I did add stability and a bottle of tetra safe start to that but it’s maybe just started to first stage of cycling.

My water is treated with chloramine so I don’t think that ever gasses off unfortunately.
Rockish is offline  
post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 04:09 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Discusluv's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Elk Grove, California
Posts: 4,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockish View Post
Ok so I currently am dosing stability with each water change but Iím not really noticing a difference. I did buy a bottle of tetra safe start and a bottle of fritz zyme 7 and havenít used either one because Iím scared of just making this worse at this point.

Iím also trying to fishless cycle an extra hob filter I have for my quarantine tank on a 5 gallon with pure ammonia. I figure if I can race and get that one cycled first I can add it to my main tank and stop the insanity. I did add stability and a bottle of tetra safe start to that but itís maybe just started to first stage of cycling.

My water is treated with chloramine so I donít think that ever gasses off unfortunately.
The Stability is enough. You dont need all those other additives. Just let the cycle develop. There are no shortcuts to establishing a strong cycle- despite what these additives claim.
P.Isley likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Amy
Discusluv is online now  
post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 05-16-2020, 04:19 PM
Algae Grower
 
P.Isley's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Chicago
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
The Stability is enough.
Agreed.

And Prime won't harm your bacteria. It is even OK to treat the tank with Prime between water changes as it detoxifies Nitrite and Ammonia, but still leaves it available for bacteria to consume.

Like @zmartin and @sbank mentioned, if possible treat the water BEFORE it gets into your tank. It doesn't help if chlorine/chloramine introduced during your water changes are killing off your cycle!
zmartin likes this.
P.Isley is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome