sump with co2? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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sump with co2?

hello friends,

I'm in the planning stages for a larger (~200 Gallon) planted tank and I was leaning towards getting a sump than a canister filter.
however while doing my research, I got some conflicting information regarding viability of CO2 with a sump, especially a wet-dry sump.

some said the sump off-gases a ton of co2 to the point it is no longer cost effective to supplement. others said it is fine.

for my sump design I would have a lid for the sump (and the tank) to reduce evaporation but I can see the trickle could lose some CO2

does anyone have first hand experience with using a sump and CO2 gas injection?


thanks
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 10:56 PM
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You are going to be fine. A lot of us use sumps and co2. The increased oxygen in the water is a good thing. You don't have to set up the trickle filter part of the sump if you're concerned with that, it's unnessary for bio filtration, just put your media under water.

I have a sump, overflow, all the things that concern you about off gassing, yet my co2 only runs about 8 hrs per day. I have high oxygen and no problem achieving a 1.2 ph drop in 1.5 hrs before lights on.

Instead of attempting to cap your sump, which is pretty hard with all the electrical cords and plumbing coming in and out of it, here's an alternative. Buy a 7" Filter sock and a 7" Pyrex lid, they fit together perfectly; cut a hole in the lid to match your down pipe size, you can fit an elbow with a reducer containing a piece of rough foam on the end to slow the flow and catch some bubbles. This set up is likely just as or more effective than trying to enclose the entire sump.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 05:13 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for your response. yeah I think the filter sock is a great idea but isn't 7" too big? I was planning on 4" diameter.

I am not intending to make the sump air tight, but I wanted to put a lid on it to reduce evaporation.

here is my current sump design idea for my purposes. I'm gonna go get some feedback in DIY section
https://ibb.co/KGTBmc4

Last edited by Here_To_Learn; 08-02-2019 at 05:15 AM. Reason: trying to get the image to work
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Here_To_Learn View Post
thanks for your response. yeah I think the filter sock is a great idea but isn't 7" too big? I was planning on 4" diameter.

I am not intending to make the sump air tight, but I wanted to put a lid on it to reduce evaporation.

here is my current sump design idea for my purposes. I'm gonna go get some feedback in DIY section
https://ibb.co/KGTBmc4
Your design will work fine. But if you are looking for feedback I would use filter socks instead of sponges for your first section. You can use finer sponges in the second section. I would also ditch the activated carbon. In a planted aquarium activated carbon is not usually a good thing. It will suck out of the water the same fertilizers we are purposely adding. If your tank is well balanced it is also questionable how much it is doing for anything else. The only time to use activated carbon is when you know there is a contaminate in your water you need to remove. So if you are painting your house or if you add meds to the water and want and then want them gone.

Edit: if the blue line is supposed to be the water line I would also consider running everything so its under the water. That will cut down on noise a lot. Leaving it above water doesn't give you any benefit.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 12:07 PM
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I have a few pictures in my journal of how I chose to setup my sump. https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/s...php?p=11112487

Lots of options, this is just one way. I don't worry about co2 off gas with the trickle filter, actually because the drip plate is sealed so well the pressure inside that chamber increases when the co2 is on.

Try to make everything have laminar flow and avoid crashing water, also be aware of the desired water levels in the sump so it can handle the back syphon tank water during a power outage.

I was going to put a lid on mine initially but don't plan to anymore just out of convenience. Mine is a similar design as the Aqueon Proflex sumps but a little simpler first chamber.


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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Your design will work fine. But if you are looking for feedback I would use filter socks instead of sponges for your first section. You can use finer sponges in the second section. I would also ditch the activated carbon. In a planted aquarium activated carbon is not usually a good thing. It will suck out of the water the same fertilizers we are purposely adding. If your tank is well balanced it is also questionable how much it is doing for anything else. The only time to use activated carbon is when you know there is a contaminate in your water you need to remove. So if you are painting your house or if you add meds to the water and want and then want them gone.

Edit: if the blue line is supposed to be the water line I would also consider running everything so its under the water. That will cut down on noise a lot. Leaving it above water doesn't give you any benefit.
thanks for your response.
1- the pink thing in the first stage is a filter sock 4 inch diameter (to scale). I only designated a couple sponges below because there was space.
2- thanks for letting me know about the activated carbon! what you say makes sense, however I saw one of my friend's tank that was too orange he said the tannins from driftwood is causing that color and chemical filtration would make it more clear. I really like to have moss on driftwood. I will do further research on this
3- sorry if the blue lines are confusing! it is not the water line, the water line would naturally go over everything as it fills chambers and goes over baffle. the blue lines are supposed to show a plastic mesh/grid that supports the weight of the sponge/ceramic on top and allows water to flow freely under.



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Try to make everything have laminar flow and avoid crashing water, also be aware of the desired water levels in the sump so it can handle the back syphon tank water during a power outage.
yes the plan is to make the last stage of the sump large enough to easily handle back siphon from the pump outtake and all of the water that would continue to siphon from the intake.
I am looking to see if I can use a glass intake siphon for the incoming water (as opposed to gravity fed overflow). this makes the engineering aspect more challenging becuase now the rate of incoming flow is not automatically regulated by the rate of water going back into the pump.
The reason I am trying to achieve this is because I really like the clean minimalistic look of aquascapes that use the clear glass input and outtake pipes. I have mostly seen them with canister filters though. I might have to drill the aquarium and install an overflow box anyway...
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-02-2019, 02:04 PM
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I am looking to see if I can use a glass intake siphon for the incoming water (as opposed to gravity fed overflow). this makes the engineering aspect more challenging becuase now the rate of incoming flow is not automatically regulated by the rate of water going back into the pump.

The reason I am trying to achieve this is because I really like the clean minimalistic look of aquascapes that use the clear glass input and outtake pipes.
Sounds like you might be interested in a Mame overflow. I haven't used one and can't vouch for it but might be worth researching if it's right for you. Leaves clogging the intake would have to be a consideration.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 12:04 AM
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Having all of your media above the waterline is to my mind a mistake. You a relying entirely on the trickle of water to keep your bacteria alive. It will always be looking to form channels and once those channels are established all bacteria not in those channels will die off. Additionally you are essentially tripling the amount of noise the sump will produce.

Why not house your media below the water line? You could have 1 wall in there to make the water go over sponges, then have your biological media simply submersed in a single large chamber. This is done a lot by other folks and is very effective.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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Having all of your media above the waterline is to my mind a mistake. You a relying entirely on the trickle of water to keep your bacteria alive. It will always be looking to form channels and once those channels are established all bacteria not in those channels will die off. Additionally you are essentially tripling the amount of noise the sump will produce.

Why not house your media below the water line? You could have 1 wall in there to make the water go over sponges, then have your biological media simply submersed in a single large chamber. This is done a lot by other folks and is very effective.

ALL of the filter media is going to be submerged fully int he water. the blue line you see in the picture is not the water level. those are to show a plastic grid tray that supports the weight of the media and allows water to flow freely.

I am going to add another picture so you see where the water line would be in the sump
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 01:27 AM
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ALL of the filter media is going to be submerged fully int he water. the blue line you see in the picture is not the water level. those are to show a plastic grid tray that supports the weight of the media and allows water to flow freely.

I am going to add another picture so you see where the water line would be in the sump
Ok, now I understand, in that case, just get rid of the plastic mesh. Its not needed. The water will flow through and around your media/sponges just fine. Anything that forms a barrier is just going to get in the way of you when you need to clean this thing.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, now I understand, in that case, just get rid of the plastic mesh. Its not needed. The water will flow through and around your media/sponges just fine. Anything that forms a barrier is just going to get in the way of you when you need to clean this thing.
Thank you for your feedback. yes certainly the plastic mesh would definitely be removable for cleaning the bottom.I agree it is probably not strictly necessary but would make it look a little neater.
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