Do i need to feed the fry? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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Do i need to feed the fry?

First of all i KNOW that fry need to eat but here is the situation. I have a planted nano 3.5 gallon tank that has 6 cherry shrimp, 2 bladder snails and a population of copepods (cyclops). Its fully cycled and stable. It can be viewed here DiAstra Shrimp Tank

I had temporarily placed a few celestial pearl dianos in the tank to assist with the copepod population but decided it would eventually self regulate as long as i kept feeding to a minimum so i removed them. Well they had some fun in there and I have at least 2 free swimming fry. The shrimp are happily eating algae and some other foods that I provide a few times a week. I am careful to add only what is needed.

Since there is a healthy population of copepods which is currently breeding like crazy, is it safe to assume that until that supply is exhausted the fry will be more than happy to eat them instead of introducing an outside food source?

Last edited by adiastra; 07-25-2019 at 07:20 PM. Reason: corrections
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 01:33 PM
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Fry eat lots of things- including algae. When it comes to quantity- just look at their abdomens- it should have a rounded look to it. If it is concave- then they need to be fed.

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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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So i have decide to supplement the diet. I cooked an egg yolk and mashed it up very fine in water. I keep it refrigerated and will add a tiny bit each morning. it stays in the water column for a while so they have plenty opportunity to eat.
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by adiastra View Post
So i have decide to supplement the diet. I cooked an egg yolk and mashed it up very fine in water. I keep it refrigerated and will add a tiny bit each morning. it stays in the water column for a while so they have plenty opportunity to eat.

That is a common recommendation. For CPD fry the answer varies widely based on age. I am not a large-scale breeder, but had our 7 CPD become 28 in six months in a community tank. At the very earliest stages, the fry will graze on super super tiny food. The egg suggestion is usually for those fry. Apparently they are dark colored and lay in the substrate until their swim bladders develop some. Even then, they are so tiny you can barely see them. They still can't eat cyclops but will graze on other things in the planted aquarium. Once they are big enough that you can see them pretty easily, they will be able to eat cyclops. I suspect by what you are saying that these are not tiny fry, but are juveniles. Juveniles eat pretty much what the adults eat. I do not feed anything in particular to the <1 week old fry. I just keep enough moss that there are places to hide and little microorganisms to eat. I feed the rest of the CPDs crushed Tetra flake, live baby brine, and live vinegar eels. The vinegar eels are small enough that the younger fry can still take them, but not so small that the adults won't eat. The brine shrimp seem harder for the juveniles and fry, but are devoured by the adults and help with color. Crushed flake is my lazy alternative when I don't want to take the time for live food. I put a pinch between my fingers and slide them together to crush it into a fine powder. Hikari micro-pellets are too large and sink too fast, but sometimes I will crush them into powder as well.



Honestly, it seems like the most important thing to having them breed successfully and having fry survive in the community tank is to have plenty of moss or other fine plants for the fry to hide in and for the adults to lay eggs in.

I tried to add an edit but it wouldnt save:

EDIT: I watched your tank stream for a while, and was able to catch the fry. They are pretty small but are able to eat vinegar eels and crushed flake at that size.
Side note, do you mind sharing what camera and method you use for your stream? I am working on setting one up and would like something similar to what you did.

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Last edited by Darkblade48; 07-27-2019 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. I think the egg+cyclops+powdered flake should get them through. There are 3 now.

My camera setup is pretty easy. I use an app called IP Webcam on an old android phone. I use a cheap flexible tripod in front of the tank. I use a No-Ip.com account and forwarded ports in my router to get the stream to the internet. Once you have the camera setup you can password protect the admin console in the app and use an iFrame to get the video in to an HTML page (or wordpress or whatever). If you need assistance I can walk you through it over the phone. Just send me a PM with your info. I am a system engineer for a living so it was pretty easy for me.
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by adiastra View Post
Thanks for the input. I think the egg+cyclops+powdered flake should get them through. There are 3 now.

My camera setup is pretty easy. I use an app called IP Webcam on an old android phone. I use a cheap flexible tripod in front of the tank. I use a No-Ip.com account and forwarded ports in my router to get the stream to the internet. Once you have the camera setup you can password protect the admin console in the app and use an iFrame to get the video in to an HTML page (or wordpress or whatever). If you need assistance I can walk you through it over the phone. Just send me a PM with your info. I am a system engineer for a living so it was pretty easy for me.

Thanks. I can handle the tech part. I was wondering which camera you were using. I do have an old android that I think would run IP Webcam.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adiastra View Post
So i have decide to supplement the diet. I cooked an egg yolk and mashed it up very fine in water. I keep it refrigerated and will add a tiny bit each morning. it stays in the water column for a while so they have plenty opportunity to eat.

I breed endlers- so you can imagine how tiny the fry are.... I fed egg yolk, but do be careful as it will muddle your water and spike your ammonia VERY quickly. Its a good pure-fat option. But nutritionally is not balanced (egg yolk has little protein- which the body is made of, and instead large amounts of fat- which can stress the liver, especially in fry).


Those look large enough to actually consume a semi floating small pellet like Hikari or Golden Pearls. Try micro worms, vinegar eels and they may even eat grindal worms like spaghetti.

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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 04:48 PM
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If you're not into hatching brine shrimp or culturing micro, banana, or walter worms, crushed quality flake food works really well. You can crush by hand finger/thumb or use a pepper mill.

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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by adiastra View Post
Thanks for the input. I think the egg+cyclops+powdered flake should get them through. There are 3 now.

My camera setup is pretty easy. I use an app called IP Webcam on an old android phone. I use a cheap flexible tripod in front of the tank. I use a No-Ip.com account and forwarded ports in my router to get the stream to the internet. Once you have the camera setup you can password protect the admin console in the app and use an iFrame to get the video in to an HTML page (or wordpress or whatever). If you need assistance I can walk you through it over the phone. Just send me a PM with your info. I am a system engineer for a living so it was pretty easy for me.
Checking the stream again, it looks like the fry are growing well. Keep it up.

Not to distract too much from your post, but wanted to say thank you for the recommendation. I set up the IP webcam using the app you suggested and it works great so far. Best part is that it actually integrates with Apex Fusion, which most cameras struggle with. I installed a fish-eye lens on mine to allow the camera to sit close to the tank and still have a decent view. I am surprised at the feature-set, even if the app were not free.




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Last edited by ohaple; 07-29-2019 at 06:36 PM. Reason: details
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 07:17 PM Thread Starter
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OOh fish eye lens, im going to have to investigate that. I know there are cheap clip-on ones that work well. Have you been able to get it streaming to the web yet?

Also an update. there are now 4 free swimming fry in there. I watched the largest one eat a cyclops earlier. I also noticed that there are are few detritus worms which is normal in a newish setup. I am not worried about them at all since i feed so little.
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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 08:08 PM
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OOh fish eye lens, im going to have to investigate that. I know there are cheap clip-on ones that work well. Have you been able to get it streaming to the web yet?

Also an update. there are now 4 free swimming fry in there. I watched the largest one eat a cyclops earlier. I also noticed that there are are few detritus worms which is normal in a newish setup. I am not worried about them at all since i feed so little.

I am using the cheap clip on kind. I usually use the clip on kind for my phone to have a macro lens option, but they come in a kit with a fish eye as well. Since I don't have a spare clip I just hot-glued it in place. It is streaming to the web now. I can view it through the IP Camera website via port forwarding or via Apex Fusion, which gets the same feed. Unfortunately I am only making still images public since the camera looks through the back of the tank and into our kitchen. You can't see hardly anything besides the tank, but my wife worries someone will be spying on her. We opted to have the camera behind the tank. Even though it isn't as good of a view from the camera, we prefer not to have the camera visible in the middle of our living room.



Great that they are eating cyclops. I can see you have a great population of them for the fry to eat.

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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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I am using the cheap clip on kind. I usually use the clip on kind for my phone to have a macro lens option, but they come in a kit with a fish eye as well. Since I don't have a spare clip I just hot-glued it in place. It is streaming to the web now. I can view it through the IP Camera website via port forwarding or via Apex Fusion, which gets the same feed. Unfortunately I am only making still images public since the camera looks through the back of the tank and into our kitchen. You can't see hardly anything besides the tank, but my wife worries someone will be spying on her. We opted to have the camera behind the tank. Even though it isn't as good of a view from the camera, we prefer not to have the camera visible in the middle of our living room.



Great that they are eating cyclops. I can see you have a great population of them for the fry to eat.
Makes sense. I often walk around in my boxers and wonder if im ever in the reflection.. then i realize i don't care.

all 4 fry are free swimming and yes the cyclops are a plenty.. for now. I am pretty sure that in a few weeks (maybe less) there wont be any in there. The bladder snails layed 2 clutches of eggs that I removed. I must have missed a few because there are a few baby snails in there. I expect that this little ecosystem will eventually balance out as long as I maintain proper lighting (i do 8 hours a day) and minimal food. Once the fish are large enough they will go to my larger tank and maybe ill try mating some more on purpose. I am just surprised the shrimp did not eat the eggs.

BTW, i have this tank setup backwards. the "front" is facing back because its easier for me to see this way. the half moon is quite distorting.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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The Fry are still doing well. I'm sure there are at least 5 now but its difficult to count them when they keep moving.


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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 03:17 PM
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The Fry are still doing well. I'm sure there are at least 5 now but its difficult to count them when they keep moving.

I think I just counted 5 on your stream. If I could see 5, you can bet there are a few more than that. Congrats. They appear different sizes, so you may have a few different waves of fry.

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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 03:35 PM
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Is that a live stream camera?!?!?!

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