Advice allocating $1k budget for new tank? - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
All of the fixtures OP mentioned have all the lighting necessary for a planted tank. And they're wildly efficient compared to CF T5 bulbs. It's merely a misconception, at this point, that CF is in any way superior.

They haven't been superior to LEDs in years. And most LED fixtures geared toward planted tanks contain proper reds and have for years. The last Current fixture I bought was in 2012 and it had proper reds way back then. So did Finnex and all the other rebranders. Even the cheap Beamswork rigs from fleabay had everything necessary... years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayo View Post
fluorescent lights have two important disadvantages. They have higher operating costs than LEDs (combination of less efficient use of electricity and bulb replacement), and most importantly, aren't dimmable. With LEDs you can get fantastic controllability that really helps with viewing and algae control.
The argument sort of goes both ways. I don't deny the advantages of LEDs, but to add to the indecision, I run Current Satellite Plus Pros and well, let's just say, there's a bunch of guys on here running T5HOs that have me wanting. The color rendering ability from mixing the tubes are second to none if you're into that "fruit stand" look of scaping. I'm currently having a hard time finding the right premade LED fixture replacement that has enough PAR and ALSO the "right" color rendering for what seems to be pretty to me. AIprime and Ecotech? A little warm... and perhaps too real to sunlight. Maybe the sbreeflights, but a lot are criticizing their aesthetics. Will need @jeffkrol to custom create something maybe.

Anyway, that's sort of nitpicking. If you want a high tech tank, first and foremost, you need CO2, and a real way to deliver it. In a rock solid consistency. DIY CO2 is going to become serious weekly burden at the levels that you need -- especially if you're driving it with the latest high light setups. Don't have CO2 right with high light? That's just a real expensive algae farm. So that's where I would put my priority. Real tank, real regulator, real needle valve / flow meter, real reactor, real delivery. I second, third, or fourth those who have CO2 listed as a priority. Everything else, can be compensated for somehow -- I think.
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post #17 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 07:16 PM
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I use both T5s (and T8s) and LEDs and have for years and years. I also believe there are far better sources (experts, even) than Barr - though he does have great tanks and I've purchased a ton of plants from those tanks. Many of the other 'experts' are here on the forum. Some of whom have been mentioned.

This isn't so much a debate/argument/fight - but LEDs perform as well as, if not better than, T5s for most hobbyists. As thousands of forum members have demonstrated and several here in the thread have brought up. It's pretty much proved at this point. People can fire up their googlers or just use the search function here on the forum to see that for themselves. We even have a large sub-forum called "Lighting" that people can read through. Everything from first-hand experience with various fixtures, tons of PAR data, color temp data, you name it.

Replacing bulbs every 10-12 months isn't just wasteful at this point in life - it's harmful. To the very environments our hobby strives to protect. Folks can debate the ins and outs of it but that's an undeniable fact these days. People are free to do as they wish and are entitled to their opinion but not their own facts. There's a reason most of us use LEDs and have for quite a few years now. Just some of them: They produce effects identical to or better than fluorescent bulbs (including color - if someone puts in any effort at all, they can easily figure that part out), they use far less energy, they're less wasteful, they produce less heat, they're more customizable, they're less harmful to the environment, they are affordable, they're easier to integrate into high-tech (think computers & web, not CO2) setups.

One huge benefit of having a forum like this: there are nearly 20,000 tank journals here that are conveniently available for perusal in the "Tank Journals" and "Planted Nano Tanks" sections. I would encourage anyone in the market for lighting or those just interested in learning to check them out. Tons upon tons of tanks that are beautifully lit with LEDs.

Most fancier LED setups you can buy are wholly customizable on the color temperature front. Even the cheaper Current fixtures are great for that. The variety of devices on the market from just the past couple years really blow my mind in terms of quality and function. And when you get into DIY LED setups, well, that's an entirely more insane and customizable world.

I guess I don't get the old school folks clinging to a dying technology.

Since none of this really matters, as OP already plans to buy an LED rig, the only thing they have to consider is how much they want to spend. For me, I'd go cheaper. But that's just because I have too much of a planted tank habit and am spread thin.

@Couesfanatic kinda hit on something I mentioned in another thread this week - reef-centric tanks. Opens up a whole new world for some of us. Not only do they tend to be fancier in terms of being drilled, having overflows and all that. They're frequently easier to maintain in terms of filtration because of sumps. If OP ever considers going that route, it may present quite a few opportunities we sometimes ignore on the freshwater side of things.

Some of those things I enjoy about sumps: Frequently easier (and usually cheaper) filtration material options. Larger water volume for a bit of increased stability. If a pump goes bad, it's easy to replace without having to toss an entire filter or get it repaired. Just stick a new one in and you're good to go.

Recently had an Eheim fail on one of my main shrimp breeding tanks and found it about 50% cheaper to go the sump route. If it weren't an easy fix because I already had the parts on-hand, I'd have sumped it right away.

Many newer reef tanks, when used for freshwater purposes, won't even need a sump. Some have 'false' backs that contain filtration units and spots for heaters and other equipment that just makes things easier.
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post #18 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 07:18 PM
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We can get in another discussion about heaters.... depending on what you are going to house- your room temp is prolly sufficient and with your lighting system your aquarium will heat it up substantially. I have Chihiros.... worst decision I have made for my tanks as my app NEVER works.

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post #19 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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post #21 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
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Just had a thought - what about using LED flood lights with the TC420 as a poor man's pendant lighting? Would the color temperature look bad, or do you guys know of floods that would work well for this?

I tried to post a few longer replies (one of them over 3 hours ago, I think), but they both said they required mod approval. Weird that I could post the thread, but not the replies to my own thread... I suspect this won't go through right away either.

Edit: What...? I'm confused why this would post, but my others wouldn't.

My first response was long enough that I typed it in word, so here's that one:

Wow, can't believe how many responses I got. Thank you everyone, this forum is great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmy View Post
I think it all comes down to your need for fancy light features

Personally i would do the following
Filter: cheaper Sunsun or some variant
Tank: Get the nice rimless
Lights: go for a much cheaper option at the cost of features
CO2: full pressurised setup, DIY isn't an option for good results here

Another option is to get the Petco tank, nice lighting as well as a few bags of Aquasoil or some other good substrate
Thanks for the advice. If CO2 is essential, I'll add that to the mix and start running some numbers. Any specific brand/model suggestions?

I'll have my aquarium upstairs, and I'm really afraid of it leaking. I'd heard the Sunsun filters had a tendency to leak, at least more so than the Eheims.

I know Aquasoil is the absolute best, but I've read on here that lots of people have had good luck with montmorillonite clay substrate (Safe T Sorb). I would need two 9L bags of Aquasoil, and at $53 a pop that's $100 more than the Safe T Sorb. Is that really worth it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
For me, I'd prioritize the filter, lighting, substrate and if you're set on CO2, a good regulator - no cheaping out on regulators. Even if you're hiding it in a cabinet, it's just not something worth risking.
Ö
Thanks! Whatís the risk with a cheap regulator Ė that it dumps tons of CO2 into the water? Also, any recommendations there, or a ballpark cost?

Are you sure the 2217 wouldnít be enough? I did a fair amount of research, and I got the impression that it was on the verge of being too big for a 40. It does 250gal/hr; the next size up jumps all the way to 600gal/hr.

As I mentioned above, Aquasoil would cost me about $100 more. I donít know a whole lot about substrates, but my research indicated the clay was a pretty competitive option, with a CEC over 30. Is Aquasoil that much better? I do really like the look of the Amazonia Aquasoil, although I like the Safe T Sorb too.

Fair point on the auto-doser. I just had that in the budget in case I felt like a project (I made my dad an auto-doser for his reef tank, and I thought it would be fun to try to improve on that). But come to think of it, I really donít even remotely mind dosing stuff weekly, and youíre right about making you feel more connected! Iíll scratch that off the budget for now.

Iíve had all my lighting on timers forÖ a decade? It works, but Iím just to a point where I really want the soft-on/soft-off functionality an automated, dimmable light brings.

Iíve looked at Deep Blue, but I donít recall seeing a 40B listed. Iíll go back and give it another look. How do they compare to Glass Cages? Iíll be driving right by Glass Cagesí facility, so Iíd save on shipping by buying from them.

Huh, I never knew black was better. The huge white seams are pretty distracting though Ė maybe a fancier rimmed tank would be a good compromise between PetCo and the rimless one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
Welcome to TPT.
Low iron rimless tanks in the 90P class (~ 36x18x18) are ~ $500 new.
For such tank you will need x2 Current/Fluval/AI Prime lights: ~$400+
A decent co2 setup ~$250+
A 200-300w heater $30-70
Heater controller $30
Cannister filter ~350 gph ~$175
Substrate $20 - $150
Stand? Petco's metal stands suck (I have 2 and they wobble)
I appreciate you breaking it down for me.

Man, those 90P tanks look so nice. Thanks, I wasnít even aware of ADA tanks. I think $500 is out of my budget, but maybe I can find one used or something.

So youíre saying even if I went with the Satellite, Iíd need two fixtures? I definitely wouldnít want to have two of those over the tank, so that makes me inclined toward the AIs.

How do you feel about inline heaters? And is a controller necessary even with a newer digital heater? (Iíve had the thermostat stick on an old-style heater, but thereís no element to stick on a digital one.)

Lastly, do you have any suggestions for the stand? I wasnít hot on the metal stand either, but I couldnít find anything else within my budget. I could always build my own, but I wonít have easy access to woodworking tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livebearerlove View Post
Substrate $7? Depending on what you are using- I would assume that will increase as im sure you will want hardscape stones and manzanita (or likewise). And your ferts the first year need to be accounted for if you dont already have them.
For my tanks- lets say a 10 gal. It cost me upwards to 450.00
(10 gallon tank, canister filter, CO2 unit with regulator, etc, substrate, plants, hardscape, lighting (chiros) and wonderful lily pipes that broke on first water change *angry face. Ferts I had on hand from my other 6 tanks.... but it was an expensive little tank)
Good catch on the hardscape stuff. That will probably add another $100 or so (just a guess; been awhile since I bought any of that stuff).

I still have some fertilizer left over from my current tank, so Iím not considering that for now. The $1000 isnít an absolute limit, itís just an arbitrary amount I want to limit myself to for the up-front costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayo View Post
Cheap, dimmable, controllable lighting? You can go pretty cheap here, unless you want to be able to control the color temperature of the lights.

Two Beamswork DA FSpecs (or other budget LED strip) both hooked up to a TC420 controller (or each hooked up to their own S2-Pro controller, which are less flexible than the TC420 but the wiring is easier) is what I'd do. If you want to go with a single light fixture for a cleaner look (not a bad idea if you go for a fancy rimless tank), look into a Chihiros LED or other higher-par strip, and attach a controller to it. Make sure you research that the controller you choose is compatible with the fixture you choose. I have tested the TC420 and the S2-Pro with both a beamswork da-fspec and a nicrew tricolor and they work great.

I'm a fan of separating the LED control aspect from the light fixture. That way you can replace either component separately.

For a 40 gallon tank, pressurized CO2 will end up being easier and cleaner looking, because you can do an inline atomizer/diffuser, and it is convenient to be able to easily change the CO2 rate to meet your needs. But I still do DIY CO2 on a 20 gal, and for a 40 you could do two 2-liter bottles, refill one each week staggered.

I would de-prioritize the auto-doser.
Thanks for the info! Changing the color temp would be nice, but it isnít a must. Iíd actually considered doing something with Beamswork lights, but I thought it took some DIY Arduino work to dim and automate them.

Iím fairly handy, so Iím sure I could make that TC420 work. How easy is it to program? Do you notice any flickering when the lights are dimmed? How low can it dim the fixtures Ė can it go all the way down to moonlight level?

I donít think Iíd want two fixtures (although if it would save me a few hundred bucks Ė maybe), so itís good to know that the controller works with other fixtures. I was thinking the Finnex Ray 2, but it looks like thatís been discontinued?

I think I might stick with DIY in the beginning at least. I use two 2-liters on my 20, but I only change one a month Ė I use brewerís yeast, so they last longer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Couesfanatic View Post
If I were you I'd do:
Red Sea Reefer 250
ADA Aquasoil
Used reg from TPT
Fluval 3.0
Eheim Jšger heater in sump
Inkbird Temp controller
After digging in the reef world, I've realized the freshwater tanks are crap. Even the high clarity tanks, none have an overflow, so you end up getting a big filter and paying 150-200 for glass lily pipes and clear tubing that you have to clean constantly. You have to buy the inline heater to hide it from the tank, if you have a sump, just buy a normal heater and throw it in the sump. Plus you can more easily run an ATO. Look at what Tom Barr runs. He has a custom star fire tank with an overflow. I believe he's using the Mame.
Sumps are nice (especially for a reef tank), but I donít think I want to go that way.

I hadnít thought about the ATO. (How do you do that without a sump Ė does the float have to be up top on the side of your tank?) I'll probably do a DIY ATO with an Arduino, so I guess I just need to find a really unobtrusive float switch.

All Iím finding for the Red Sea Reefer 250 is an entire system thatís $1350. Can you get just the tank?

Would a single 60W fixture be enough to grow carpeting plants in that 250?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadim Shevchuk View Post
I have set up a 40B for cheap before. Bought one during the dollar per gallon sale and I ordered a stand when it was on sale and I used a gift card purchased through gift card resellers to get an additional 25% off. Since you are used to the reef world. I would keep an eye out and try to find an ELOS 70 for sale used on a forum. I had an elos tank before and I just took out the overflow and siliconed a piece of glass to cover the the drilled holes.
What stand did you get?

Wow, that ELOS is crazy expensive.
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post #22 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure, but I'm hypothesizing that the quick reply box somehow circumvents mod approval, whereas the reply page goes through them. Anyway, here's my best attempt to reconstruct my second response:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipkiss View Post
...
Anyway, that's sort of nitpicking. If you want a high tech tank, first and foremost, you need CO2, and a real way to deliver it. In a rock solid consistency. DIY CO2 is going to become serious weekly burden at the levels that you need -- especially if you're driving it with the latest high light setups. Don't have CO2 right with high light? That's just a real expensive algae farm. So that's where I would put my priority. Real tank, real regulator, real needle valve / flow meter, real reactor, real delivery. I second, third, or fourth those who have CO2 listed as a priority. Everything else, can be compensated for somehow -- I think.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge! I'll definitely do my best to budget for a pressurized CO2 system. Any suggestions for brands/models for a budget build?

Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
...
Since none of this really matters, as OP already plans to buy an LED rig, the only thing they have to consider is how much they want to spend. For me, I'd go cheaper. But that's just because I have too much of a planted tank habit and am spread thin.

@Couesfanatic kinda hit on something I mentioned in another thread this week - reef-centric tanks. Opens up a whole new world for some of us. Not only do they tend to be fancier in terms of being drilled, having overflows and all that. They're frequently easier to maintain in terms of filtration because of sumps. If OP ever considers going that route, it may present quite a few opportunities we sometimes ignore on the freshwater side of things.

Some of those things I enjoy about sumps: Frequently easier (and usually cheaper) filtration material options. Larger water volume for a bit of increased stability. If a pump goes bad, it's easy to replace without having to toss an entire filter or get it repaired. Just stick a new one in and you're good to go.

Recently had an Eheim fail on one of my main shrimp breeding tanks and found it about 50% cheaper to go the sump route. If it weren't an easy fix because I already had the parts on-hand, I'd have sumped it right away.

Many newer reef tanks, when used for freshwater purposes, won't even need a sump. Some have 'false' backs that contain filtration units and spots for heaters and other equipment that just makes things easier.
In your opinion, how many watts of LED would I need to grow carpeting plants in the 40B? Or, since watts doesn't tell the whole story, how many of the fixtures mentioned in this thread (Satellite, AI Prime HD, Beamswork, etc.) would I need? I think for coverage I'd need two Primes, but do you think I'd need two of the others as well?

Sumps are definitely nice, but they add some complication and expense. Once I graduate grad school, I'll probably do a larger freshwater tank with a sump. For anyone who goes that route, I'd highly recommend not buying a tank with the overflow already in it. You can save money and get a better result drilling the tank and making the overflow yourself, unless you want the bottom drilled so you don't see pipes behind the tank. For example, in my 75g reef, the portion of the overflow inside the tank is only about 16" x 5" x 1.5", and you hardly notice it compared to one of the huge ones that go all the way to the bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livebearerlove View Post
We can get in another discussion about heaters.... depending on what you are going to house- your room temp is prolly sufficient and with your lighting system your aquarium will heat it up substantially. I have Chihiros.... worst decision I have made for my tanks as my app NEVER works.
My house will range from about 65 įF at night in the winter to 74 įF midday in the summer, so I think a heater will be necessary. In my experience, LEDs don't add that much heat to the tank.

Is the Chihiros light supposed to be controllable with your phone? (assuming that's what you mean "app")
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post #23 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 10:58 PM
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Cheap regulators can do that and are notorious (for lack of a better word) for something called end of tank dump. On top of other types of failure and uncertainty that are no fun. It may not be common but it's not worth the risk. Hit up the For Sale section here on the forum. You'll spend anywhere from $150-$400 for a decent used regulator and parts necessary to use it.

Pretty certain 2217 probably won't cut it for a 40. I have two on a 70ish gal tank I have and wish I had more. Planted tank nerds tend to go way overboard, though. Maybe if your bioload is low it'll be fine. Given any thought to specifically what livestock you want to house in the tank?

Aquasoil or something similar is absolutely worth the cost. Also aesthetically pleasing. While it's not a must, I certainly would use it if I had a thousand dollar budget for a tank build. It makes plant care so much easier. High CEC substrates are just fine. But they won't look or perform anything like Aquasoil. It also makes life easy when you're first setting up your tank and want to get it cycled.

Absolutely with you on the light fixture situation. Particularly since you want more of a show/display tank.

As another member mentioned, Deep Blue (as a brand) is being discontinued. Which means you'd likely be able to get a killer deal on a tank if you check with local shops in your region. The black really does make a difference, in my opinion, on smaller (under 100-150gal) tanks that aren't rimless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeTheGuppy View Post
Thanks! Whatís the risk with a cheap regulator Ė that it dumps tons of CO2 into the water? Also, any recommendations there, or a ballpark cost?

Are you sure the 2217 wouldnít be enough? I did a fair amount of research, and I got the impression that it was on the verge of being too big for a 40. It does 250gal/hr; the next size up jumps all the way to 600gal/hr.

As I mentioned above, Aquasoil would cost me about $100 more. I donít know a whole lot about substrates, but my research indicated the clay was a pretty competitive option, with a CEC over 30. Is Aquasoil that much better? I do really like the look of the Amazonia Aquasoil, although I like the Safe T Sorb too.

Fair point on the auto-doser. I just had that in the budget in case I felt like a project (I made my dad an auto-doser for his reef tank, and I thought it would be fun to try to improve on that). But come to think of it, I really donít even remotely mind dosing stuff weekly, and youíre right about making you feel more connected! Iíll scratch that off the budget for now.

Iíve had all my lighting on timers forÖ a decade? It works, but Iím just to a point where I really want the soft-on/soft-off functionality an automated, dimmable light brings.

Iíve looked at Deep Blue, but I donít recall seeing a 40B listed. Iíll go back and give it another look. How do they compare to Glass Cages? Iíll be driving right by Glass Cagesí facility, so Iíd save on shipping by buying from them.

Huh, I never knew black was better. The huge white seams are pretty distracting though Ė maybe a fancier rimmed tank would be a good compromise between PetCo and the rimless one.


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post #24 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:11 PM
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I usually let the house get down to mid-60s at night in the winter, and in the summer it can get as hot as 75 (įF). I think I'll probably need a heater.

Really? The Chihiros lights are (supposed to be) controllable with your phone?

Depends on what you are going to have- discus? ok then heater. But many other breeds dont need high heat (livebearers, etc)- especially since the lights WILL heat up the water when on for a decent cycle. I have lived all over the world- and even caught wild tropical fish. 'Tropical' fish get to 60 at night... but then heat up during the day, cyclical.



I Got the Chihiros- Almost daily I deal with the drama on the app. Even this morning IT decided it wasnt going to turn on... and when I tried to correct it- it reverted back to a setting from months ago. I invested a lot into the system... The colors are brilliant, the settings and controls are stunning, the low profile beauty is awesome.......but something is just not right about it... Im building another tank as we speak and I wont buy that brand again.

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post #25 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:20 PM
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Depends on what you are going to have- discus? ok then heater. But many other breeds dont need high heat (livebearers, etc)- especially since the lights WILL heat up the water when on for a decent cycle. I have lived all over the world- and even caught wild tropical fish. 'Tropical' fish get to 60 at night... but then heat up during the day, cyclical.



I Got the Chihiros- Almost daily I deal with the drama on the app. Even this morning IT decided it wasnt going to turn on... and when I tried to correct it- it reverted back to a setting from months ago. I invested a lot into the system... The colors are brilliant, the settings and controls are stunning, the low profile beauty is awesome.......but something is just not right about it... Im building another tank as we speak and I wont buy that brand again.
What breeds (species and varient) are these fish? Granted Ive never had livebearer's so can not give any context on those. But, what other freshwater fish can, in the aquarium, fluctuate from 60 degrees at night to 75 in the day?

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #26 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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I think I'll start with the 2217, and if I run into issues I'll figure it out then.

Very tentatively I'm thinking something like 11 rummy-nose tetra; a dwarf gourami (or a breeding pair if I could get my hands on a female); either 5ish smaller loaches, panda cories (5-10), or pygmy cories (10-15); 5-10 oto cats; maybe a Siamese algae eater; and a boatload of cherry shrimp. I'd really like discus though, so maybe I'd substitute a pair for the gourami(s) and the bottom-dwellers. So a moderate bioload?

I'll also consider Aquasoil a little more seriously. I'm a little apprehensive of the difficulty planting stuff in the coarse particles of Safe T Sorb.


I'm kind of concerned about temp swings stressing my livestock, especially since I'll be breeding stuff.

That's frustrating about the lights, it sucks when stuff doesn't work like it's supposed to.
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post #27 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:31 PM
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Do you have any plan for what kinds of plants you want to keep? What style of aquascape you're hoping to achieve?
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post #28 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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I'll be honest, I've had a planted tank for about 5 years but I'm still kind of a noob.

I don't know many plants off the top of my head; I'll have to research plant choices once I get the hardware nailed down. I definitely want to keep Downoi, and I like crypts, but other than that I have no idea.

I like a more plant-heavy style, so Dutch really appeals to me, but I don't know that I have the time for the upkeep that requires.
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post #29 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-05-2019, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeTheGuppy View Post
I think I'll start with the 2217, and if I run into issues I'll figure it out then.

Very tentatively I'm thinking something like 11 rummy-nose tetra; a dwarf gourami (or a breeding pair if I could get my hands on a female); either 5ish smaller loaches, panda cories (5-10), or pygmy cories (10-15); 5-10 oto cats; maybe a Siamese algae eater; and a boatload of cherry shrimp. I'd really like discus though, so maybe I'd substitute a pair for the gourami(s) and the bottom-dwellers. So a moderate bioload?

I'll also consider Aquasoil a little more seriously. I'm a little apprehensive of the difficulty planting stuff in the coarse particles of Safe T Sorb.


I'm kind of concerned about temp swings stressing my livestock, especially since I'll be breeding stuff.

That's frustrating about the lights, it sucks when stuff doesn't work like it's supposed to.
If you are breeding discus- they would need to be alone in a forty breeder. An adult size confirmed pair. Otherwise they will chase each other until one dies of stress related issues. If other fish are with them the spawn will be eaten or the parents so stressed that they will eat the spawn every time.



The only fish temperature compatible with discus ( temps at or above 82 degrees) on your list ( if you just wanted a pair, but not interested in breeding) would be the otocinclus and Rummy-nose. All other fish do well under 78 degrees.



certain loaches can be without a heater
shrimp I have no experience with
All other fish on list require heater.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #30 of 82 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 12:12 AM
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Are you space limited to a 40B? I have a 40B and really like it but if I had the space I would have gotten the 75, longer and slightly taller 40B essentially. Minimal price difference when they go on sale.

Dont forget local CL for deals on stuff. Alot of overpriced junk out there but also some decent deals when people are moving or just wanna get rid of stuff.
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