Whatís in your canisters? - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
 15Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 04:12 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiede View Post
But that isnít the start and end of the reality is it? Those bacteria need specific conditions, which generally arenít found in canister filters. Itís even recommended to keep flow slow around this media, as well as a larger amount of it for denitrification, which already suggests a YMMV factor here. But without any solid details itís hard to say anything solid about it, or validate the claims beyond anecdote.

When this process happens in our substrate, itís possible for the bacteria to get nitrogen starved and turn to producing hydrogen sulfide. Can the media clog, causing similar conditions after long term use? Why or why not? Not really discussed either. At least vaguely it should be fine, but not a lot of data to draw solid conclusions from, either.




And while this is an interesting anecdote, it isnít the same as data. Not without being able to eliminate other factors, and causes. Key to that is a good control.

An example is BRS attempting to test if Marine Pure had denitrifying properties. Their tests were inconclusive, partly because all tanks in their test saw a period of very low nitrates before seeing a rise in nitrates, even their control with no media which plunged down before rising back up.

At the end of the day, what I have been using works, and Iím not terribly interested in doing a 6 month long test of media where the sole benefit is to compete with my plants for nutrients. In the time it takes this stuff to establish, you should also be getting plants established with similar nitrogen controlling benefits. So our planted tanks arenít exactly great for controlling variables, as we intentionally add more.

I will point out that Seachem does make similar claims with Matrix, just not nearly as vocally as biohome does.

What other natural explanation, besides denitrifying bacteria, would explain the sudden, precipitous drop of my nitrate levels, in a new, virtually-plantless tank. If there isn't any other likely explanation, then isn't the only reasonable conclusion that the cause of the reduction is likely the denitrifying bacteria? And if yes, then isn't the media the likeliest source of this sudden appearance of this denitrifying bacteria? (Remember, the nitrate drop happened within 24 hours of adding the established media, and took place over only a 4-day span, and my tank, in fact, all my tanks, continue to maintain <5 ppm nitrate levels.)



I'm happy to remove the media from my tank, and see if the nitrates start to rise again. But, what would that accomplish? It's not like you'll accept my results, if that happened. What if I then added it back and the nitrates dropped again? Probably not then either.



This is not a jab at you. To the contrary! You don't know me from a stranger on the street; why would you trust what I say? You genuinely are skeptical, and that's totally understandable. I just happen to know, from repeated usage, that it works. That's all.



Don, from GreatWave Engineering (a real life "pond guru", if there ever was one), has done tests on Biohome. The only one I uncovered on youtube is his test on whether Biohome affects pH:



I've enjoying this discussion. All the best to you.

D
DimitriSF is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 04:23 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
AbbeysDad's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Southern Tier of Central New York, USA (Finger Lakes Region)
Posts: 1,417
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosyrobyn View Post
Anyone use pot scrubbies for bio media? I'm trying it out since I'm on a tight budget. Got the idea from here: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...o-media.46922/
It's not a canister, but I have pot scrubbies in a 4 stage trickle filter I built out of 5g buckets for our little basement turtle pond. Sponge, polyester fiber, nylon pot scrubbies, Matrix/DeNitrate:
(Like bio balls, the pot scrubbies work great in a drip application. In a canister filter, I think bio-sponge would be better)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20171031_113536.jpg
Views:	26
Size:	178.7 KB
ID:	868103  

Attached Images
    
ricktfoster and Tannerleo like this.

My website and Blog:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by AbbeysDad; 08-29-2018 at 04:25 PM. Reason: update
AbbeysDad is online now  
post #33 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 04:29 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
AquaAurora's Avatar
 
PTrader: (37/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: north east cost US
Posts: 5,738
I got a whole lot of tilapia poop haha
I have ehiem ceramic balls/bio media spread over the 4 containers of my canister. Sponge/foam clogs too quickly with my stock.
The outflow dumps into a grow bed with peppers and now some pea stocks. Bin is filled with expanded clay media balls. Water dumps from there back into tank.

Due to photobuckets new bs cost for use of images on forums I have deleted all photobucket accounts. I apologize if you enjoyed or found my photos helpful.
Starting to update these threads

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
~
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AquaAurora is offline  
 
post #34 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 07:11 PM
Algae Grower
 
rosyrobyn's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
It's not a canister, but I have pot scrubbies in a 4 stage trickle filter I built out of 5g buckets for our little basement turtle pond. Sponge, polyester fiber, nylon pot scrubbies, Matrix/DeNitrate:
(Like bio balls, the pot scrubbies work great in a drip application. In a canister filter, I think bio-sponge would be better)
I'm using fine and coarse sponges on the first two layers and then the scrubbies on the bottom. So scrubbies work best in a trickle filter and not so much for a canister? Sounds like I'll have to change them out later for some eheim substrat or something similar.
rosyrobyn is offline  
post #35 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 07:30 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
In fact I did monitor pH when I first started using it to see what effect the peat had but I couldn't tell you now exactly what it was for an N% water change. About as expected as I recall. My tap is about 7. Over about a day or so it will take it down to the ~6.5-6.3 range. Water changes left it somewhere in between and then it would slowly bottom out again in that same range. As I said, never had any issues and my tanks are relatively stable at this point so haven't really paid much attention to it beyond that. Main reason that I started using it was to get pH lower for successful fertilization of ram eggs and they spawn all the time so I can kind of monitor it indirectly that way. On the odd occasion that I've tested it otherwise it's always in about that same range.
Awesome, that's good to know. Gradual changes are a-okay, especially when stable as you described. Did you notice any other properties to the peat? Does it soften water or reduce KH like a buffering substrate would? I also wonder if it would absorb nutrients like a soil/substrate with high CEC would.

Looks like the wife is gonna be annoyed because a small test must be done...that means another tank! lol
varanidguy is offline  
post #36 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 11:40 PM
Planted Member
 
evil8's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: North West WI
Posts: 251
Thanks for answering my questions! I have the new canister on the way.
evil8 is online now  
post #37 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 02:09 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by varanidguy View Post
Awesome, that's good to know. Gradual changes are a-okay, especially when stable as you described. Did you notice any other properties to the peat? Does it soften water or reduce KH like a buffering substrate would? I also wonder if it would absorb nutrients like a soil/substrate with high CEC would.

Looks like the wife is gonna be annoyed because a small test must be done...that means another tank! lol
Sounds like good enough of an excuse to me. ; ) Yeah, not a sharper change like with a pH up/pH down-type product. You're basically making peat tea and the extraction takes a while and it's only going to do so much. I'd be curious to hear how your test goes. I'd expect that there probably will be more of a difference seen nearer a more neutral starting point. Much higher/lower and I think that there's likely going to be too much for it to force things much. No idea as far as nutrients.

It supposedly does have a softening effect though I've never measured what difference there may be. My water definitely is on the harder side so to whatever extent it helps, I'll take. It does stain the water some. Which I like in the tanks where I'm running it. Purigen will clear that up but it takes out the Purigen bag kind of quickly. At least as far as appearance goes anyway. Turns darker fairly fast. Charcoal I'd guess would work too but haven't tried it. Also there can be a little bit of an "earthy" odor at first when changed. Not over powering but you may get whiff here and there. More so in all-in-one tanks like my Spec V and with HOB filters vs canisters. That goes away fairly quickly. Or maybe I just get used to it. But since the wife with her super-nose has never said anything I think the former. Bagged peat obviously is much cheaper but it's kind of dirty, never know what's in it, need to pick out sticks and bigger pieces, etc. I like the pellets better myself. Neat and clean and easy and it's compressed so more/volume and lasts longer. I bought a bunch real cheap so that's what I use.
varanidguy likes this.
Mike A. is offline  
post #38 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 03:38 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
Raith's Avatar
 
PTrader: (35/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Edison, New Jersey
Posts: 1,685
I stuffed peat granules, I tested in a bucket today, 7.6pH to 6pH in a day. o_o


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
20 Gallon jungle tank
2 Gallon Sparkling Gourami underworld
2 Gallon jungle val madness bowl

RAOK CLUB #0
Raith is offline  
post #39 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 06:05 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raith View Post
I stuffed peat granules, I tested in a bucket today, 7.6pH to 6pH in a day. o_o
How much peat, which product, and what volume of water?

Just sitting in a bag or running through a filter?
Mike A. is offline  
post #40 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 06:33 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricktfoster View Post
Iíve got a Hydor 450 which I love. Inside (from bottom to top) Iíve got the sponge, Seachem Matrix, Biorings (which will eventually be Matrix as well) & Polyfil with a bag of Chemipure Green.

How do you guys have your canisters setup?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I've got a Hydor 600 with a similar setup. Sponge, the Hydor ceramic rings that came with the canister, Matrix, and Polyfil. I'm thinking of getting rid of the ceramic rings. Should I just get more Matrix too?
ryguystye is offline  
post #41 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 02:10 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
theDCpump's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 355
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
It's not a canister, but I have pot scrubbies in a 4 stage trickle filter I built out of 5g buckets for our little basement turtle pond. Sponge, polyester fiber, nylon pot scrubbies, Matrix/DeNitrate:
(Like bio balls, the pot scrubbies work great in a drip application. In a canister filter, I think bio-sponge would be better)
Bingo!
I agree.
Attack with easy to maintain strategies.

- I use all foam in my canisters and only open up the canister's body every quarter of a year.
This is only once the foam slabs in each chamber are established and running.
-this keeps the seals nice and unused, prolonging the notorious leak issues in time.

Prefilters:
Run a select porosity (hole size) pre-filter sponge on the intake of a canister, and all the heavy food/plant garbage gets stuck on the outer surface area of the prefilter (which gets removed and squished in water change water).
While maintaining the water changes, siphon off the prefilter while it is in the tank.
It is the easy way to keep the canister's prefilter sponge on longer.

The easy part:
Where is the tight porosity material your all thinking about?
I use a quiet hang-on filter with layered/stacked porosity sponge in it.
Hang-on filters like the Tidal series have almost no way to leak as they are just a bucket on the rim of the tank.
- Hang on filters are very quick to use, so I don't mind slapping out a hang-on filter each week if needed.

Bio (rock media):
I still have all the rock like bio-media from all my hang on filters, canisters, and accessories sitting in a junk drawer.
Some day I'll use it in a sump near the far cleanest end protected by chambers of foam.

I never understood this bio rock thing.
I can take my tight porosity filthy sponge and slap it out, and it gets open and clean again.

The small rock/stone bio media gets filthy in most applications, but I don't believe the pores get any cleaner over time building up with dead clumps of mulm.
If I can keep the rock/bio-media clean in a chamber of pristine water, then I'm ok with that.
Until then, it waits for a sump chamber in the future.

As a summary, I believe the squished out foam can be used more effectively than rock bio media in most applications.

***Give a try to lots of foam, you'll like the way it works for you when it gets seeded and ramped up in the denitrification process.
- stuff those chambers!
theDCpump is offline  
post #42 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 03:46 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Raith's Avatar
 
PTrader: (35/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Edison, New Jersey
Posts: 1,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
How much peat, which product, and what volume of water?

Just sitting in a bag or running through a filter?
It's a bucket, I don't know how many gallons it holds, peat inside a nylon bag, there were two bags full, I'd say maybe 200g worth? Maybe more, dunno. It's the Fluval peat granules. I have heard that you shouldn't soak it before but whatever.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
20 Gallon jungle tank
2 Gallon Sparkling Gourami underworld
2 Gallon jungle val madness bowl

RAOK CLUB #0
Raith is offline  
post #43 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 04:36 PM
Planted Member
 
Kaiede's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by theDCpump View Post
I never understood this bio rock thing.
I can take my tight porosity filthy sponge and slap it out, and it gets open and clean again.

The small rock/stone bio media gets filthy in most applications, but I don't believe the pores get any cleaner over time building up with dead clumps of mulm.
If I can keep the rock/bio-media clean in a chamber of pristine water, then I'm ok with that.
Until then, it waits for a sump chamber in the future.
It's a trade-off, really. Higher surface area at the cost of eventual clogging. It is practically a given at some point, it's just a question of how long. But considering how much extra media we try to have, and the plants on top, that trade off may very well be completely optional for so many of our tanks. There's also reports of folks using the sintered glass media like Substrat Pro for a very long time (10 year range), but it's hard to tell if it is because they were good about avoiding clogging, their cleaning practices, or just not having a huge bioload because of plants/etc.

I do like having sponges around. My Eheim Pros use sponges instead of the Eheim Mech for the first tray of filtration after the coarse sponge. Two layers, medium, and medium-fine cut to "seal" the tray (and it happens to help slow flow a little, nice byproduct for my tanks). Then the other media goes in the trays after that one. But yeah, I wouldn't run the rock/ceramic media without some sort of mechanical filter in front of it to prolong the lifespan.
theDCpump likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kaiede is offline  
post #44 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 05:00 PM
Newbie
 
Tannerleo's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Saint Petersburg, Florida, USA
Posts: 4
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriSF View Post
I only use pondguru's Biohome Ultimate media in my filters.
I'm using Biohome Ultimate as well, but not yet seeing the nitrate reduction. How long did it take for you?

NVM, I saw the answer in your later post.

Last edited by Tannerleo; 08-30-2018 at 05:10 PM. Reason: Saw the answer in a later post.
Tannerleo is offline  
post #45 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-30-2018, 06:06 PM
Newbie
 
Tannerleo's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Saint Petersburg, Florida, USA
Posts: 4
Ecco Pro Biohome

I recently switched from a HOB to the Eheim Ecco Pro 2236 and I set it up "modified Pondguru style".

I left the original coarse blue pre-filter ring in the top.

I put 1" Poret 30ppi and 1" Poret 45ppi foam in the bottom tray. I didn't think it a good idea to cram 3" of foam into a 2" tray like Mr. Pondguru did in the YT video.

The other 3 trays are filled with approximately 1.8273kg of Biohome Ultimate.

I ran it with the HOB for a few weeks, then removed the HOB.

It's been running like this since early July. Ammonia and nitrite always at 0 (just like with the HOB), but I'm yet to see a noticeable reduction in nitrate. From what I understand it will take a few more months to build an adequate colony of the "nitrate-to-nitrogen" bacteria deep in the Biohome.

So I'm still hopeful , but like everything else with my aquarium I worry I'm doing it wrong.
Tannerleo is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eheim vs Fluval Canisters TECKSPEED Equipment 14 07-19-2014 12:42 AM
Eheim Ecco Pro 2232 Easy / canisters in general -- should I? Philia Equipment 4 02-09-2012 02:55 AM
Does turning Eheim canisters off and on - wear the impeller? 100gal-Man Equipment 7 07-24-2011 12:53 AM
ocean clear canisters + fractioning pump? jargonchipmunk Equipment 27 04-03-2009 07:41 AM
CO2 systems with mini canisters? adamsaulnier Equipment 2 12-10-2008 08:33 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome