Whatís in your canisters? - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
 15Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 06:34 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,918
SunSun 303b on a 40 breeder.

Tray 1 (bottom): Coarse blue sponge, Marineland blue bonded pad, white polishing pad designed for 303b trays, and topped off with a 100 micron felt pad.
Tray 2 (middle): Seachem Matrix, a bag of seeded Fluval Biomax for quickly establishing new filters (if necessary), and 250ml of Purigen.
Tray 3 (top): 1 lb of Biohome Ultimate.

I usually go about 5 weeks (first weekend of every month) between filter cleanings, but the last one I went 6 or 7 weeks, and probably could have gone longer. But I try to keep my routine relatively consistent, it's just the last cleaning I got kind of lazy about getting done on time.
varanidguy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 07:10 PM
Algae Grower
 
rosyrobyn's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 38
Anyone use pot scrubbies for bio media? I'm trying it out since I'm on a tight budget. Got the idea from here: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...o-media.46922/
rosyrobyn is offline  
post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 08:18 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
oscarlloydjohn's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosyrobyn View Post
Anyone use pot scrubbies for bio media? I'm trying it out since I'm on a tight budget. Got the idea from here: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/f...o-media.46922/
I think The King of DIY (Joey) on youtube made a video about cheap bio media. Pot scrubbies and lava rocks are mentioned in the video.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

ADA mini M low tech with Cherry Shrimp and Dwarf Puffers
oscarlloydjohn is offline  
 
post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 08:31 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Raith's Avatar
 
PTrader: (35/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Edison, New Jersey
Posts: 1,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
I use the Sera or Fluval peat pellets in some of mine. Not that precise about it. I just stuff a bunch into a small fine mesh filter bag. Call it somewhere in the ballpark of around 1/4 to 1/2 cup. A little more or less depending on filter size or a given case. Typically takes my pH from about an even 7 to ~6.5-6.3 range. Usually swap it out when I clean the filter.
My idea was to leave it in, if it can lower the pH little by little, that is essentially what I want. If it drops by really quick, then, wouldn't that be considered an issue?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
20 Gallon jungle tank
2 Gallon Sparkling Gourami underworld
2 Gallon jungle val madness bowl

RAOK CLUB #0
Raith is online now  
post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-28-2018, 09:34 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raith View Post
My idea was to leave it in, if it can lower the pH little by little, that is essentially what I want. If it drops by really quick, then, wouldn't that be considered an issue?
Doesn't in my experience. It's relatively mild stuff in terms of any effects and takes some time. That may vary some depending on volume/water volume, buffering within your tank, etc., but in general it's not going to cause any shock in any typical use. You can leave it in but at some point whatever's in there that can be extracted will be extracted and it won't be doing much for you from there.
Mike A. is offline  
post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 12:17 AM
Captain
 
Immortal1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,608
Quote:
Originally Posted by evil8 View Post
This thread is timely and very interesting. I'll be moving from a hob to a canister this week and I have some questions. I'm eager to pull the hob from my 30 gallon as soon as possible to remove the noise in my living rm. Can I just move the filters and media (small bag of ceramic rings, 3 small coarse sponges and 1 small fine sponge) into the canister (I don't have an issue cutting the sponges into small squares to fit)? Being new to canisters do I stack the trays to filter from top to bottom or bottom to top? Or does that depend on the make of the filter. I'm looking at the Marineland Magnaflow C160 (or perhaps the C260) and will be ordering it online this evening so I can set it up this weekend. Thanks!

Absolutely you can move what is in your existing HOB media into your new canister filter. Beneficial bacteria will grow on nearly everything in a fish tank - granted it "prefers" to grow on some things more than others. Based on some of my previous experimentation, beneficial bacteria grow very well in sponge material (think sponge filters). Once your have your new filter set up, give it a week or so of run time for the HOB bacteria to grow into the canister filter bio material. Then I would slowly (over 2 weeks or so) remove the HOB material.


As for the new filter, yes it does mater how you set up the trays. Bio Media typically does the best in clean water (think well filtered). So, most canister filters move the incoming water to the bottom of the filter. As the water moves UP thru the trays you want to progressively filter out the debris - course to fine. Then at the very top of the filter (top tray) is where your bio media goes.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- GreggZ Tank Parameters
Immortal1 is online now  
post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 02:41 AM
Planted Member
 
Kaiede's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriSF View Post
I only use pondguru's Biohome Ultimate media in my filters.

I think Biohome is the only biological media that supports anaerobic bacteria. That's important, because anaerobic bacteria convert nitrates into nitrogen gas, thus FULLY completing the nitrogen cycle (v.s. forcing you to do massive water changes to lower nitrates).

All my tanks' nitrates are always 0-5 ppm, and I only do tiny 5-10% water changes, every 3 weeks or so. And that's only because I'm trying to keep my TDS at 200-250, because of my shrimp.

If I did RO top-offs, I could easily go a month or more between 5-10% water changes. Easily.

I'm surprised more people don't use Biohome.
Plants also uptake nitrate and ammonia, and at least with my bioload, it's possible for me to bottom out on nitrate in the tank during the week as long as the plants are growing well even with fertilizers being added that contain it. It's not like nitrate is running amok in my tanks. And nitrate is only one reason to do water changes.

I am also just a bit dubious of marketing approaches that could be called a form of "negging". Such as the "you aren't fully cycled unless you use biohome" line. I'm not losing sleep over my nitrate levels or water change frequency, any water quality issues I do have are not going to be solved by it, and biohome isn't offering up evidence of effectiveness, I'm okay with what I've been using.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kaiede is offline  
post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 04:38 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
Doesn't in my experience. It's relatively mild stuff in terms of any effects and takes some time. That may vary some depending on volume/water volume, buffering within your tank, etc., but in general it's not going to cause any shock in any typical use. You can leave it in but at some point whatever's in there that can be extracted will be extracted and it won't be doing much for you from there.


Say you have an EI dosed, high tech tank, that gets the weekly 50% water changes. Would the pH shift from tap (say 7.4-7.6) mixing into the buffered water be a shock to the fish?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
varanidguy is offline  
post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 06:00 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by varanidguy View Post
Say you have an EI dosed, high tech tank, that gets the weekly 50% water changes. Would the pH shift from tap (say 7.4-7.6) mixing into the buffered water be a shock to the fish?
Way too many variables and unknowns to say. Best that I can tell you that I've not seen any sort of shock-type effects in any of the tanks where I use it. That's doing regular 20-50% water changes and nothing to pre-treat the new water (other than Prime obviously). Mostly used in tanks with rams and some other fish that are at least somewhat sensitive including many times with fry in the tanks which I'd think would be a pretty good worst-case.
Mike A. is offline  
post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 06:01 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Apple Valley, CA
Posts: 1,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
Way too many variables and unknowns to say. Best that I can tell you that I've not seen any sort of shock-type effects in any of the tanks where I use it. That's doing regular 20-50% water changes and nothing to pre-treat the new water (other than Prime obviously). Mostly used in tanks with rams and some other fish that are at least somewhat sensitive including many times with fry in the tanks which I'd think would be a pretty good worst-case.


Have you measured the pH before and after to see what the swing is?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
varanidguy is offline  
post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 06:37 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by varanidguy View Post
Have you measured the pH before and after to see what the swing is?
In fact I did monitor pH when I first started using it to see what effect the peat had but I couldn't tell you now exactly what it was for an N% water change. About as expected as I recall. My tap is about 7. Over about a day or so it will take it down to the ~6.5-6.3 range. Water changes left it somewhere in between and then it would slowly bottom out again in that same range. As I said, never had any issues and my tanks are relatively stable at this point so haven't really paid much attention to it beyond that. Main reason that I started using it was to get pH lower for successful fertilization of ram eggs and they spawn all the time so I can kind of monitor it indirectly that way. On the odd occasion that I've tested it otherwise it's always in about that same range.
varanidguy likes this.
Mike A. is offline  
post #27 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 09:37 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiede View Post
Plants also uptake nitrate and ammonia, and at least with my bioload, it's possible for me to bottom out on nitrate in the tank during the week as long as the plants are growing well even with fertilizers being added that contain it. It's not like nitrate is running amok in my tanks. And nitrate is only one reason to do water changes.

I am also just a bit dubious of marketing approaches that could be called a form of "negging". Such as the "you aren't fully cycled unless you use biohome" line. I'm not losing sleep over my nitrate levels or water change frequency, any water quality issues I do have are not going to be solved by it, and biohome isn't offering up evidence of effectiveness, I'm okay with what I've been using.
It's healthy and wise to be skeptical. But, I assure you, this media works.

Glad you aren't losing sleep over doing frequent water changes; but I'm not in that camp. I prefer the low-tech/no-tech/Walstad approach that advocates less water changes. And my water quality is just fine.

What evidence of effectiveness do you require before trying it? The microbiology, behind how anaerobic bacteria break down nitrates and release nitrogen gas, is not in dispute here; it's part of the (complete) nitrogen cycle. It's basic chemistry.

It took about 4 months, for the anaerobic bacterial colonies to fully take hold in my tank's media, but once they did, it was remarkable to witness my nitrates plunging to almost zero and staying there, for months and months on end.

I also just set up a 4 gallon Walstad tank, this last month. (Plants haven't grown in yet.) I was regularly dosing 4 PPM of ammonia, which kept my nitrates at 20-40 PPM. When I finally added some established Biohome Ultimate media, from another of my tanks, the nitrates plunged to 0-5 PPM, in 4 days... 4 days. And it's stayed there, day after day after day, despite daily dosing of ammonia.

Of course, heavily-planted tanks, with faster-growing plants, can keep ammonia and nitrate levels low too (that's also basic chemistry), but not all people's tanks have such a high plant filtering capacity v.s. their bioload. So, for many of those folks, those elevated nitrate levels is a major reason for frequent water changes.

Anyway, keep on doing what works best for you.

Best,
D
artgecko likes this.
DimitriSF is offline  
post #28 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 03:16 PM
Planted Member
 
Kaiede's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriSF View Post
What evidence of effectiveness do you require before trying it? The microbiology, behind how anaerobic bacteria break down nitrates and release nitrogen gas, is not in dispute here; it's part of the (complete) nitrogen cycle. It's basic chemistry.
But that isnít the start and end of the reality is it? Those bacteria need specific conditions, which generally arenít found in canister filters. Itís even recommended to keep flow slow around this media, as well as a larger amount of it for denitrification, which already suggests a YMMV factor here. But without any solid details itís hard to say anything solid about it, or validate the claims beyond anecdote.

When this process happens in our substrate, itís possible for the bacteria to get nitrogen starved and turn to producing hydrogen sulfide. Can the media clog, causing similar conditions after long term use? Why or why not? Not really discussed either. At least vaguely it should be fine, but not a lot of data to draw solid conclusions from, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriSF View Post
It took about 4 months, for the anaerobic bacterial colonies to fully take hold in my tank's media, but once they did, it was remarkable to witness my nitrates plunging to almost zero and staying there, for months and months on end.

I also just set up a 4 gallon Walstad tank, this last month. (Plants haven't grown in yet.) I was regularly dosing 4 PPM of ammonia, which kept my nitrates at 20-40 PPM. When I finally added some established Biohome Ultimate media, from another of my tanks, the nitrates plunged to 0-5 PPM, in 4 days... 4 days. And it's stayed there, day after day after day, despite daily dosing of ammonia.

And while this is an interesting anecdote, it isnít the same as data. Not without being able to eliminate other factors, and causes. Key to that is a good control.

An example is BRS attempting to test if Marine Pure had denitrifying properties. Their tests were inconclusive, partly because all tanks in their test saw a period of very low nitrates before seeing a rise in nitrates, even their control with no media which plunged down before rising back up.

At the end of the day, what I have been using works, and Iím not terribly interested in doing a 6 month long test of media where the sole benefit is to compete with my plants for nutrients. In the time it takes this stuff to establish, you should also be getting plants established with similar nitrogen controlling benefits. So our planted tanks arenít exactly great for controlling variables, as we intentionally add more.

I will point out that Seachem does make similar claims with Matrix, just not nearly as vocally as biohome does.
MCFC likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Kaiede is offline  
post #29 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 03:39 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
furnfins's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Brooklyn,NY
Posts: 594
I just bought Biohome Ultimate media. I'm going to change it next canister cleaning. Figure I'll add it in it's own little bag next to existing media for a while. I'm also going to add a different sponge along with the Eheim sponge.
furnfins is offline  
post #30 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-29-2018, 03:54 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
Raith's Avatar
 
PTrader: (35/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Edison, New Jersey
Posts: 1,686
I'm going to experiment with pH, I have peat granules in a bucket with water out of tap, 7.8, letting it sit for a day and then check.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
20 Gallon jungle tank
2 Gallon Sparkling Gourami underworld
2 Gallon jungle val madness bowl

RAOK CLUB #0
Raith is online now  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Eheim vs Fluval Canisters TECKSPEED Equipment 14 07-19-2014 12:42 AM
Eheim Ecco Pro 2232 Easy / canisters in general -- should I? Philia Equipment 4 02-09-2012 02:55 AM
Does turning Eheim canisters off and on - wear the impeller? 100gal-Man Equipment 7 07-24-2011 12:53 AM
ocean clear canisters + fractioning pump? jargonchipmunk Equipment 27 04-03-2009 07:41 AM
CO2 systems with mini canisters? adamsaulnier Equipment 2 12-10-2008 08:33 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome