Does FURAN-2 kill beneficial bacterial in the filter? - The Planted Tank Forum
 3Likes
  • 2 Post By Darkblade48
  • 1 Post By Mike A.
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-19-2018, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Merriallynchian's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 174
Does FURAN-2 kill beneficial bacterial in the filter?

Does API FURAN-2 medicine kill beneficial bacterial in the filter?

Thanks.
Merriallynchian is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-19-2018, 11:25 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Discusluv's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Elk Grove, California
Posts: 4,558
No, it does not. Your beneficial bacteria is gram positive and Furan 2 only kills gram negative bacteria.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Discusluv is online now  
post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 12:07 AM
Moderator
 
Darkblade48's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto/Singapore
Posts: 11,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
No, it does not. Your beneficial bacteria is gram positive and Furan 2 only kills gram negative bacteria.
Which beneficial bacteria are Gram positive?

Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter are both Gram negative.
dukydaf and Discusluv like this.

Anthony


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
Darkblade48 is offline  
 
post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 12:36 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Discusluv's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Elk Grove, California
Posts: 4,558
I am sorry, I have been for many years wrong then.
I have used this antibiotic with very sensitive fish ( discus, primarily) many times throughout the years with no noticeable effect to my bio-filter. I do have well established systems, however.
I am not saying you are wrong, because you are right, I liked it up and both Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter are stated as gram negative.
This is mystifying to me.

This could be part of the problem:
On API's website it clearly states that Furan 2 does not damage the bio-filter.
When the company itself states this, there is bound to be some confusion.
Still not doubting the point you are making, let me be clear.
https://www.apifishcare.com/product....4#.W1EwlLgnZPA

When my fish are sick, however, I change water daily regardless of ailment or medication using.
This could explain why a decrease in nitrifying bacteria is not evident to me.
I do appreciate you bringing this to my attention. This could very well make a difference on newly established bio-filters and I will now caution others that this could set-back ones bio-filter.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Discusluv; 07-20-2018 at 12:55 AM. Reason: edit
Discusluv is online now  
post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 02:10 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
Merriallynchian's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Discusluv View Post
I am sorry, I have been for many years wrong then.
I have used this antibiotic with very sensitive fish ( discus, primarily) many times throughout the years with no noticeable effect to my bio-filter. I do have well established systems, however.
I am not saying you are wrong, because you are right, I liked it up and both Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter are stated as gram negative.
This is mystifying to me.

This could be part of the problem:
On API's website it clearly states that Furan 2 does not damage the bio-filter.
When the company itself states this, there is bound to be some confusion.
Still not doubting the point you are making, let me be clear.
https://www.apifishcare.com/product....4#.W1EwlLgnZPA

When my fish are sick, however, I change water daily regardless of ailment or medication using.
This could explain why a decrease in nitrifying bacteria is not evident to me.
I do appreciate you bringing this to my attention. This could very well make a difference on newly established bio-filters and I will now caution others that this could set-back ones bio-filter.
Does your tap water use Chlorine or Chloramines? If Chlorine, then using the water conditioner will neutralize the Chlorine however if your tap water is chloramines then you are left with a high ammonia byproduct even with heavy water changes. That is the problem I'm facing now is I am trying to do water changes and ended up with ammonia spikes which my biological filtration is unable to handle.

If the beneficial bacteria are gram negative, I wonder why the medicine does not kill it along with the bad bacteria? Maybe the beneficial bacteria are more resistant to the medication ?

Thanks.
Merriallynchian is online now  
post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 03:13 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 452
Just to further confuse you, I think that the "2" in Furan-2 is intended to reflect that it's effective against both gram-positive and -negative bacteria.

But it's more complicated than simply whether gram-positive or -negative. Bacteria exist in lots of various forms and with structural differences in outer surface protein layers, etc. So it may be that antibiotics like Furan-2 just aren't as readily absorbed either into the individual cells themselves or can't get through multiple layers of bacteria built up over time or other things like that given the dosage and time present. I've not really studied it, but I'd guess that it very likely may have some effect on various beneficial bacteria but there's enough that's not affected that for practical purposes it's safe. Given higher concentrations/time/temp/newly established tank, etc., that might not be the case.
Discusluv likes this.
Mike A. is offline  
post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 07-20-2018, 05:07 PM
Moderator
 
Darkblade48's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto/Singapore
Posts: 11,640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike A. View Post
Just to further confuse you, I think that the "2" in Furan-2 is intended to reflect that it's effective against both gram-positive and -negative bacteria.

But it's more complicated than simply whether gram-positive or -negative. Bacteria exist in lots of various forms and with structural differences in outer surface protein layers, etc. So it may be that antibiotics like Furan-2 just aren't as readily absorbed either into the individual cells themselves or can't get through multiple layers of bacteria built up over time or other things like that given the dosage and time present. I've not really studied it, but I'd guess that it very likely may have some effect on various beneficial bacteria but there's enough that's not affected that for practical purposes it's safe. Given higher concentrations/time/temp/newly established tank, etc., that might not be the case.
To add even more confusion, the beneficial bacteria that we have that reside in the filter (on filter media) likely exist in biofilms. These are naturally resistant against antibiotics, and antibiotics really only work effectively on planktonic cells.

It's hard to say exactly what effect drugs in general will have on microbial communities that exist in biofilms; it is still a very active area of research

Anthony


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Eheim Pimp #362 - Eheim 2213 x2, Eheim 2028, Eheim 2217, Eheim surface skimmer and Eheim autofeeder.
Victor Pimp #33 - HPT272-125-350-4M
Darkblade48 is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome