Can I get away with this stock plan? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 03:01 PM Thread Starter
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Question Can I get away with this stock plan?

Currently planning out my 40 Breeder tank now that it's established (it cycled over a month ago, currently houses 2 bristlenose plecos, MTS and ramshorn snails). I have an EHEIM 2211 canister filter running plus a big sponge filter suggested for 75+ gallon tanks. I also have plants (6 anubias, 15 java fern, 3 clumps of java moss, a few lilies, ~12 stem plants). I wouldn't call it heavily planted quite yet but it's getting there as it fills in. The dwarf water lettuce plants have exploded so I know they're pulling up nitrates.

Aq Advisor says I'd be slightly overstocked (not taking the plants into consideration) at 108% capacity:
- 3 Koi swordtails (1M:2F)
- 4 Koi Angelfish
- 2 Super Red Bistlenose Plecos (1M:1F)
- 3 Tiger Nerite Snails
- 10 Malaysian Trumpet Snails

Do you think I can still get away with this given the plants adding a bit of extra filtration? Should I add more mechanical filtration? Aq Adviser does say the filtration capacity is at 109% so that technically matches the stock load.
I was also considering getting a pothos plant but wasn't sure if that would remove too many nitrates and starve the other plants in the tank. Any thoughts on that?

I don't want to push this too far because this is my main display tank, so if I *really* need to scale back on some of the fish please let me know (I'd probably move a pleco out). I don't want things getting out of control. My water change schedule is at least 50% weekly, I could certainly do two per week if that would help.

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by babystarz View Post
Currently planning out my 40 Breeder tank now that it's established (it cycled over a month ago, currently houses 2 bristlenose plecos, MTS and ramshorn snails). I have an EHEIM 2211 canister filter running plus a big sponge filter suggested for 75+ gallon tanks. I also have plants (6 anubias, 15 java fern, 3 clumps of java moss, a few lilies, ~12 stem plants). I wouldn't call it heavily planted quite yet but it's getting there as it fills in. The dwarf water lettuce plants have exploded so I know they're pulling up nitrates.

Aq Advisor says I'd be slightly overstocked (not taking the plants into consideration) at 108% capacity:
- 3 Koi swordtails (1M:2F)
- 4 Koi Angelfish
- 2 Super Red Bistlenose Plecos (1M:1F)
- 3 Tiger Nerite Snails
- 10 Malaysian Trumpet Snails

Do you think I can still get away with this given the plants adding a bit of extra filtration? Should I add more mechanical filtration? Aq Adviser does say the filtration capacity is at 109% so that technically matches the stock load.
I was also considering getting a pothos plant but wasn't sure if that would remove too many nitrates and starve the other plants in the tank. Any thoughts on that?

I don't want to push this too far because this is my main display tank, so if I *really* need to scale back on some of the fish please let me know (I'd probably move a pleco out). I don't want things getting out of control. My water change schedule is at least 50% weekly, I could certainly do two per week if that would help.

So take snails out of the equation as there not going to do any thing for bio...looking at 8 fish for a 40b is totally fine..everyone has their own opinions. but you got a sponge, canister, and plants for filtration which is enough. shoot knowing me I would add cory's/otto's too, to that mix of stocking! I had a 40B and was really stocked up. given I had a 2211 and 2215 running the tank, but every thing was healthy and thriving. Also don't always believe these systems that are talking about how much you can stock in a tank blah blah bull. Theres tons of hobbyist that have kept what people would complain "overstock" and had super healthy great looking tanks

One water change a week will be more then sufficient if you doing 50%.
watch your fish, algae, tank it will all show signs if these are getting out of hand.
As long as you keep up on watch changes you'll be fine.
Don't stress over think it/honestly fish keeping is easy.

don't get me wrong good on you for wanting the tank to be just right and the fish happy and healthy but you would know if the tank is to over stocked. Some people dont use common sense but what your doing will be more then fine

Bump: also sorry for the long rant/post..but just trying to get my point across
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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So take snails out of the equation as there not going to do any thing for bio...looking at 8 fish for a 40b is totally fine..everyone has their own opinions. but you got a sponge, canister, and plants for filtration which is enough. shoot knowing me I would add cory's/otto's too, to that mix of stocking! I had a 40B and was really stocked up. given I had a 2211 and 2215 running the tank, but every thing was healthy and thriving. Also don't always believe these systems that are talking about how much you can stock in a tank blah blah bull. Theres tons of hobbyist that have kept what people would complain "overstock" and had super healthy great looking tanks

One water change a week will be more then sufficient if you doing 50%.
watch your fish, algae, tank it will all show signs if these are getting out of hand.
As long as you keep up on watch changes you'll be fine.
Don't stress over think it/honestly fish keeping is easy.

don't get me wrong good on you for wanting the tank to be just right and the fish happy and healthy but you would know if the tank is to over stocked. Some people dont use common sense but what your doing will be more then fine

Bump: also sorry for the long rant/post..but just trying to get my point across
Oh no, I do appreciate the detailed explanation and reassurance quite a bit! Part of my hesitation here is due to my originally getting into the aquarium hobby in a way I'd call "backward" - meaning I've NEVER had a mixed species community tank before. I used to keep species specific planted tanks and any inhabitants/plants were chosen to support the tank's designated species (usually wild betta species). They were often under-stocked so this idea of putting together a community display tank is a whole new world for me. I'll go ahead and remove the snails (although I doubt I'll be able to round up all the MTS).

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 05:06 PM
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My personal oppinion here: 40B is too shallow for Angels and too small for 4. 4 mixed sex BNs is another potential problem.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 05:50 PM
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Oh no, I do appreciate the detailed explanation... I'll go ahead and remove the snails (although I doubt I'll be able to round up all the MTS).
I think that they meant out of the equation as far as the stocking calculator since they don't have much impact as far as bio-load (and also have some positive roles more generally), not that you physically remove them.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 06:10 PM
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Oh no, I do appreciate the detailed explanation and reassurance quite a bit! Part of my hesitation here is due to my originally getting into the aquarium hobby in a way I'd call "backward" - meaning I've NEVER had a mixed species community tank before. I used to keep species specific planted tanks and any inhabitants/plants were chosen to support the tank's designated species (usually wild betta species). They were often under-stocked so this idea of putting together a community display tank is a whole new world for me. I'll go ahead and remove the snails (although I doubt I'll be able to round up all the MTS).

sorry I should have been more clear! dont remove the snails out of the tank I meant as in bio load they shouldnt be included with how much bio load your tank can support.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 06:14 PM Thread Starter
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My personal oppinion here: 40B is too shallow for Angels and too small for 4. 4 mixed sex BNs is another potential problem.
I did wonder about the depth. How deep should the water be for ideal growth?

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sorry I should have been more clear! dont remove the snails out of the tank I meant as in bio load they shouldnt be included with how much bio load your tank can support.
Thank you for the clarification!

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 06:30 PM
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I look at stocking on a far more personal level and from more detailed points. You've cycled the tank and that was good, though the definition of "cycled" can be a factor. But also know that the bacteria which you built up doing the cycle will drop off to whatever level they find. So if you built, even a huge group, but not maintained that group, your tank may have dropped back and only ready to meet the demand of a smaller addition. So give some thought to how to add the fish and how to deal with any overload of ammonia. Old style was to add a few fish at a time and expect the bacteria to grow to meet the increased demand and do some more water changes if the ammonia began to show. Either way works but with some risk of damage to fish gills? Ready to add fish slowly or do more water changes?
But what is overstocked is also open to definition. The big things are size and type of fish as well as how well we can keep it maintained. So you really can stuff a tank with lots of fish and get away with it----IF we are willing and able to do the extra work cleaning filter and changing water. Calculators are good and quick answers based more on the "average" person. So are you average or overworked/short on time already so that you may not get average done well enough to avoid trouble? Look at a creek full of fish. There may be tons of fish but full time water changing which most of us won't/don't do.
Four Koi angel may be tight but then how you feel about your fish has to be a factor. Are you open to try it, maybe find it doesn't work and so swap off some angels when they get bigger or do you look at them as lifetime pardners? I've come to look at my fish more like roommates and I do trade them out for pretty much the same reasons! As long as things go well, they stay but go very quickly if I sense trouble!
It is all very much a calculated risk and I expect to make some mistakes but rarely kick myself too hard when I mess up.
It's a hobby for me to have fun, not a career!
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 07:28 PM
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today all day I have been reading posts you've written and hit it out of the park each time!! you need a damn award haha!!
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 08:34 PM
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@babystarz I am trying to measure mine and they seem to be around 6" tall, at 1 year old. That tall of a fish in a 16" tall tank would look out of place to me.
And then they are cichlids. If 2 pair up, then the other 2 will be misserable. The 2 of mine are both males and have been raised together since they were about 1.5". And still, they are having daily supremacy battles.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 09:10 PM
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Had 3 Angels in a 40b.. Was sort of funny when 2 pared up and laid eggs.. All the other fish went and hid at the far right of the tank..

I don't think the height is much of the problem.. but the amount of real estate..

Transferred the pair to a 20 for awhile.. They bred and seemed content..

I'd never do 4 in a 40 myself..not w/ other fish..

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018, 10:20 PM
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The heighth of the 40B is lacking. I agree, angelfish need a deeper tank.
But, would they live in a tank that is not adequately deep enough?-- yeah.
The major difficulty will be when they pair off, pretty likely out of 4 Angels you will get a pair. Angelfish are aggressive when breeding- extremely to conspecifics.
Now, if you wanted to pair them up and then take the other two out ( although I still think the tank isnt deep enough for adult-size angels) once this is done then you could make it work.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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As usual you have all given me much food for thought! The wheels in my head started spinning last night when I remembered the 90 gallon I have sitting in my basement. I am thinking this would make a much better long term home for a pair of the angels (it sounds like 2 in a tank is better regardless of whether they actually pair off?).

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-10-2018, 11:53 PM
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As usual you have all given me much food for thought! The wheels in my head started spinning last night when I remembered the 90 gallon I have sitting in my basement. I am thinking this would make a much better long term home for a pair of the angels (it sounds like 2 in a tank is better regardless of whether they actually pair off?).
90G is much much better. I have a single angel in a 25g that is a 20" tall tank and I can't even picture him in my 40B that is only 16" tall.
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