Ich info for new and old users? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-02-2018, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Ich info for new and old users?

This is the time of year when we often see a flood of new users and that always brings a flood of questions about ich! Ane there is always a good chance the older, more experienced user may forget some of the info if he doesn't need it often. So perhaps this might be "required "reading for many of us?
Info from the University of Florida who deal with many more fish questions that any of us will ever need, so I trust that the info will be among the best around. And I have to admit that it reminded me of a few points that were not clear or had been forgotten!


Enjoy? It never hurts to review even if we have not had a sign of ich in years.

CIR920/FA006: Ichthyophthirius multifiliis (White Spot) Infections in Fish
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 10:41 PM
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Good read

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-03-2018, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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But there does seem to be one thing missing that several of you folks might have on top of the head? I have a party needing to know HOW MUCH salt? it would be nice if some of you folks would post up your favorite amounts in some common way to measure instead of PPm or such. Anybody got a teaspoons for ten gallon or something really easy?
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 12:56 AM
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Great reminder. I've always had success using Seachem's Paraguard in my QT's. Haven't used aquarium salt in about 15 years, so no memory of dosing regimen. In the ten or so years I've been using a high-end UVS, I haven't had a single outbreak of ich or other parasitic disease in my main tank. Surprised that there aren't more discussions about this useful device.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 01:02 AM
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Great reminder. I've always had success using Seachem's Paraguard in my QT's. Haven't used aquarium salt in about 15 years, so no memory of dosing regimen. In the ten or so years I've been using a high-end UVS, I haven't had a single outbreak of ich or other parasitic disease in my main tank. Surprised that there aren't more discussions about this useful device.
My thoughts exactly. Can't use salt since it will kill plants. I've also used Paraguard... and I also wish someone would have detailed the benefits of a UV sterilizer for preventing and dealing with ich... and likely NTD as it is a protozoa

Deanna is there anyway you'd be willing to share what make/model you would recommend for a 150?? And a 75?

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 01:18 AM
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Deanna is there anyway you'd be willing to share what make/model you would recommend for a 150?? And a 75?
I've been using a Vecton2 from TMC and it's lasted ten+ years ...so far. Have to change the bulb annually, as with any UVS.

You can find the right sizing here: https://www.tropicalmarinecentre.co.uk/en/global-search?f[]=field_ybrand:19040&f[]=field_tclcod:TMC%20Vecton%20-%20Sterilisers&f%5B%5D=field_ybrand%3A19040
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 03:07 AM Thread Starter
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That seems to be where things begin to get fuzzy when we talk about ich. I had about decided it was not a problem to bother me any more but then I ordered some fish that came in sick in a number of ways including ich.
So they were in a 75 gallon tank that was planted but not anything that was high value as most were just getting started to make the expected fish look good. So what the heck, I bumped the temperature up and added salt at whatever level I found in looking around to info. I wound up losing most of the fish to various things that I never got a handle on what the ailment was as each fish seemed to die in a different way. But the salt and high temperature worked very well for the ich but does nothing for the other random ailments that come along after. But I also have no idea what level of salt I used and was hoping to get a better recommendation.
And that is where the thoughts on ich seem to go off into multiple items and treatments so that a novice trying to find a cure is not going to find one but a dozen which leaves them wondering if they did not use the right one or not do it right when the fish start dying.
Guess we will all just have to struggle along with whatever system we feel works for each of us?
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 04:16 AM
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I usual go with the least harsh first and then work up. Heat. Then Paraguard. If that doesn't get it and/or it's spreading and I have to then I'll pull whatever I can and nuke it with one of the stronger ich treatments. If it's just a few spots and you see it early, then heat usually will do it. If it's bad already and getting worse, then better to step up to the stronger treatments right away I think. Time's not really on your side then to wait it out. Fortunately I haven't had to deal with it for a long time now.

Problem isn't killing the ich so much. That's easy to do with the formalin/copper/methylene blue/malachite green. It's what else is in the tank as far as invertebrates and more sensitive fish and plants and what that may do to them in the process. That's why it tends to go off into various directions as far as treatment. Paraguard is the stronger treatments in a less concentrated form so usually you can get away with it and not kill shrimp and snails and scaleless fish. I don't think that salt itself does much to the parasite itself until you get to higher concentrations that start becoming a problem for some fish and plants. It does supposedly help with slime coat and healing at lower concentrations so it may have some indirect benefit. Never had much luck with the natural remedies. I think that they work on the same principle. Stimulate the slime coat to try to ward it off and heal vs attacking it directly.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-04-2018, 12:08 PM
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I've kept clown loaches for over 15 years and never had ich. I used UV from the start. One of my friends cured a bad outbreak by installing UV as did another person I advised online.

There's a lot of misinformation being spread about UV. People would prefer ich treatments that are often deadlier than the disease.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-05-2018, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlantedRich View Post
But there does seem to be one thing missing that several of you folks might have on top of the head? I have a party needing to know HOW MUCH salt? it would be nice if some of you folks would post up your favorite amounts in some common way to measure instead of PPm or such. Anybody got a teaspoons for ten gallon or something really easy?
Rich, in the article you linked I noticed this is mentioned:

Quote:
A slight increase in salinity can help decrease osmoregulatory stress caused by the damage to the external tissues of the fish. At warmer water temperatures (7579F), use of 45 g/L (= 45 ppt) salt (sodium chloride) in a prolonged bath for 7 to 10 days is another effective treatment in smaller systems, provided the fish species can handle the salt concentration. Because theronts are intolerant to increased salinity levels of 35 ppt, salt is often added to aquaria or tanks that are being treated with formalin to enhance the response to treatment. Most freshwater fish can tolerate 5 ppt salinity for several weeks and many can live in 3 ppt permanently; however, it is important to know the specific tolerances for each species to be treated.
So at higher temperatures, we want up to 5 grams/liter of salt.

That converts to 1 tsp/liter (1 teaspoon of salt = 4-6 grams).

A 10 gallon tank is 37.8541 liters so that's... 38 teaspoons. Or 3.8 teaspoons per gallon.

That sounds like a lot, but Google is showing me other sites recommend 3 teaspoons per gallon so 3.8 at the high end does seem plausible.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 06-06-2018, 03:35 PM
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I had Africans in my 150 before it was heavily planted. One of the new Peacocks was beaten badly and subsequently developed ich. A local guy that specializes in Africans said 1 CUP of salt per 10 gallons. It wasn't daily and I forget the regimen, but it did stop ich very quickly and effectively. Obviously that amount of salt would destroy plant life. We know copper works incredibly well... but not plant and invert safe. We don't see alot of people posting about their UV experiences. Is that because they have no "disease" experiences and there for nothing to add other than "I have a UV sterilizer and my fish never get sick". We search these forums looking for answers to problems. Someone who never has to deal with ich, columnaris, or NTD would likely pass right over these threads. I think it's worth the investment especially with more expensive inhabitants that are less resilient (Discus, Rams, large schools of cardinals).
Thanks Deanna

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