What will happen with my cycling and plants.. - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
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Question What will happen with my cycling and plants..

Hello,

Started cycling may 6. Right now I have 2-3 ppm of ammonia, no nitrite yet. I planted yesterday may 13, all easy plants. Annubia, taxiphyllum spiky, cryptocerum etc. So, I read that it is ok to plant while cycling. But on tropica web site Tropica's 90 days startup-service for aquariums - Tropica Aquarium Plants, it says that I should add shrimp on day 3 after I planted. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure I won't be able to add shrimp in 3 days from now, I will still have ammonia in my tank.

Questions
1- Will I be invaded by algae if I can't add shrimp really soon?
2- Do I have an alternative to the shrimps to try to control algae? (I'll add shrimps when my cycling will be completed, but from my reading, it could take 10 days more at least! )
3- When I took out the plants from their pots to put in my tank, for some of them, I was not able to completely remove the cotton wool from the roots. Is the wool can rot?

Thx
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by peterphonic View Post
Hello,

Started cycling may 6. Right now I have 2-3 ppm of ammonia, no nitrite yet. I planted yesterday may 13, all easy plants. Annubia, taxiphyllum spiky, cryptocerum etc. So, I read that it is ok to plant while cycling. But on tropica web site Tropica's 90 days startup-service for aquariums - Tropica Aquarium Plants, it says that I should add shrimp on day 3 after I planted. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure I won't be able to add shrimp in 3 days from now, I will still have ammonia in my tank.

Questions
1- Will I be invaded by algae if I can't add shrimp really soon?

No, using shrimp as solely for algae prevention is asking for trouble.

2- Do I have an alternative to the shrimps to try to control algae? (I'll add shrimps when my cycling will be completed, but from my reading, it could take 10 days more at least! )

Oh.... it will take longer than 10 days more or less a month if not longer. No, do not add shrimp to an uncylced tank. The tank should actually be running for several months before shrimp are added. Less light, more plants, good parameters, organic removal etc. are all tools to help with algae.

3- When I took out the plants from their pots to put in my tank, for some of them, I was not able to completely remove the cotton wool from the roots. Is the wool can rot?

Rinse them under tap water to try and remove as much as possible. The little that's left shouldn't harm anything.

Thx

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Thx for the reply. What is good parameters? I have something between 7.4-7.8 for the ph (I find it hard to read the ph with API test kit)
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 03:49 PM
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OK question for everyone.. Why subject plants to 2-3ppm ammonia?
Seems risky at best..
best case would seem to be cut back ammonia to no more than 1ppm once plants are introduced.



to o/p what is the tank pH?

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by peterphonic View Post
Thx for the reply. What is good parameters? I have something between 7.4-7.8 for the ph (I find it hard to read the ph with API test kit)
0 ammonia
0 nitrite
5-40 nitrate
6.5-7.5 (cherry shrimp / amanos) 7.8 works too.
2-6 kH (cherry shrimp / amanos)
6-10 gH (cherry shrimp / amanos / plants)

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 03:57 PM
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pete...

You don't need plants in a fishless cycle. Just complete the cycle and introduce the plants once the tank water is established.

M

"The fish keeping hobby is very simple. Just change out a lot of water, a lot of the time!"
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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pete...

You don't need plants in a fishless cycle.

M
Ahh, well. Too late I planted yesterday . It is my first thank and I've made a couple of mistake like that...
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 04:47 PM
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Ahh, well. Too late I planted yesterday . It is my first thank and I've made a couple of mistake like that...
Planting a tank makes cycling easier, no mistake made as far as i can tell

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
to o/p what is the tank pH?
I used high range and normal API ph test. I think my ph is between 7.4 - 7.8. But it might also be 7.0? See pictures below.

About ammonia being high, I thought that it does not matter for plants? Anyway, I'll follow tropica guide and I have to do a LOT of water change. 50% the third day for example.

Last edited by peterphonic; 07-05-2018 at 01:07 PM.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 04:51 PM
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C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/8-...ny-advice.html

Just woudn't "encourage" planting w/ high ammonia levels esp w/ pH's above 7..

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-14-2018, 04:52 PM
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Ammonia up to 4 ppm is fine, I would aim for 1.0 - 2.0 life Jeff was saying to be safe. Plants can utilize ammonium nitrogen, but it can also burn them, better to be safe than sorry.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-17-2018, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Hello!

So, my tank is still cycling. I know it can take quite long time to be complete, but I want to be sure everything I am doing is OK.

So, like I said earlier, tropica is saying that I should do water change at dey # 3 after planting (to avoid algae). As you can see below, my reading dropped, which is normal I know.

Questions :
1. Tropica says I should do water change on day 7. I am wondering if this will too much lower my ammonia and nitrites and stop the nitrate process?

2. Should I add a source of ammonia in my tank?

Thx

Last edited by peterphonic; 07-05-2018 at 01:07 PM.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 05-18-2018, 05:58 PM
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I have just started 2 tanks (20G and 90G) - am also a newbie and set one up as a potential quarantine tank and the other as a show tank. I added plants to both tanks from day 1 of the fishless cycle. They are now both done with cycling. Here is what I learned from my experience:

Ammonia: Yes, you need to add ammonia to your tank. Use an ammonia dosage calculator to dose the right amount of ammonia. Also, use the cheap ammonia you get at Ace hardware than has absolutely no additives. You need to add ammonia to get your cycle going. You can try other stuff like letting fish food rot or throwing in dead shrimp, but you can never control the amount of ammonia that way (and I hear the shrimp stink!)
20G:
Ammonia dosage: 2.5ppm
A few plants melted away and never came back (I can't remember their species)

90G:
Ammonia dosage: 4 ppm
A few plants melted away and never came back (I can't remember their species)
Several other plants suffered - anubias never died, but I have already had to prune their original leaves. spiral val melted away but came back and is good now. same with dwarf sag.

My conclusion based on my experience: Ok to add plants early, just dont dose ammonia too high. Maybe go up to 2ppm? It shouldn't slow down your cycle, just that you should introduce fish slowly so your bio filter can continue building.

Algae:
20G:
I had a photo period of 4-5 hours
I added excel once in a week or sometimes twice
Initially, had some algae buildup, but it went away by itself - I honestly did nothing. The tank is clean or algae!

90G:
I had a photo period of 6-12 hours (tried many combinations)
I added excel once in a week or sometimes twice
Major algae bloom! And just like you, I couldn't add any fish or shrimp to control the algae because I was cycling.
I asked for advice here, and was told to have patience and continue to play with my lighting.
And I changed 70% water every weekend for a few weeks.
By the time the cycle was done, there was green everywhere!
And then, I added 7 nitrile snails, 4 Otos and 4 amno shrimp. THEY WORKED WONDERS! It hasn't even been a week since I added them and the tank is clean! The sand substrate still has some green on it, but no where compared to as much as it had before.

My conclusion: I assume more light = more algae. So, cut down on light to 4-6 hrs per day. Beyond that - stop worrying. Once cycling is done, deploy a clean up crew and see them do their magic. Be prepared for snail poop - there is lots of it! If you run into algae, use this guide: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/26...e-control.html

Time to cycle:
Took me about 5-8 weeks for each tank. Hard to be precise because I took a 3-week vacation in the middle of cycling! During that time, I left fish food in the tank, hoping it would supply ammonia to keep the cycle going. Once back, I took out the food and resumed dosing ammonia. I followed this process: The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community

Adding plants:
Every plant I got, I put in a bleach solution for 3 minutes (1 part unscented bleach with NO additives, 19 parts water) and then immediately put it in water + Dechlorinator for another 5 minutes before introducing to my tank. It helped clean them and get rid of snails.
Also, I got a lot of advice on this forum and other forums too that if you want to put plants in your tank, plant them during the cycling process as they help the cycle along. I did just that.

Water change:
Don't stress about harming your cycle with a water change. The helpful bacteria live in your filter, even large water changes will NOT impact your cycle. Change water as often as you like (if it looks dirty) or as often as you need (e.g., nitrates too high).

Hope this helps . Like I said, I JUST got done with this process on 2 tanks, so I am basing all this on very recent personal experience.
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