Paludarium plumbing questions. - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-11-2018, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Paludarium plumbing questions.

So I am in the process of planning a rescape of my paludarium. When I do I would like to put in a sump. This will be my first rodeo as far as plumbing and using a sump and would like to know if I am the right track.

The paludarium's main tank will be 6 inches of water, this will give me just under 20 gallons in the main tank. I will have a ten gallon as the sump that will be about half filled giving me around 5 gallons in the sump and around 25 gallons total.

The height of the front pane of the tank is 18" and the back portion is 30". To achieve a 6" water line I will drill a hole in the back for a bulkhead. My plan is to have a long strainer tube turned on its side to act as an over flow. Then have a 90 to the bulkhead then another 90 to the sump for this I will have a durso standpipe. I have a 1/2" inflow so I will be using a 1" out flow. Here is a sketch of what I'm thinking:



I also checked out the overflows at gl[censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored][censored]s.com they have overflows that would work for this size tank so I might just use that instead of my design.

Also since we are not dealing with a lot of water I would like to keep the flow to as little as possible however the water will have to travel up probably 5 feet or more. I am figuring I should probably go with something that has a higher head (around 7 feet?). I would figure I should go with a more powerful pump that is adjustable and just dial it back to as low a flow as I can get to reach that height.

Any reasons this will not work? Does it seem like I'm on the right track?

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-22-2018, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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No one?

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-29-2018, 02:55 AM
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That looks fine, but I would consider using an aqualifter pump to keep the line free of air.


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Thank you,

Eric
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-29-2018, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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That looks fine, but I would consider using an aqualifter pump to keep the line free of air.
Thanks for the reply. I could be wrong but since this is a gravity fed system there would be no siphon also the fact I am making a durso standpipe modification this would no allow for a siphon.

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-07-2018, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Bump any plumbing experts out there?

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-08-2018, 10:00 PM
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A durso usually has a completely submerged L section inside the overflow. I'm not sure combining the overflow and L into one assembly is going to work to give you the silent Durso action you're looking for. I believe the water level inside the bulkhead should be about half full, with no air entering from the tank side (that's what keeps it quiet).

As far as the pump, yes you're going to need something with a good amount of of head rating. Two things:

1.) DC pumps are usually more efficient and better for dialing down electrically. I don't know what options are out there for smaller systems.
2.) I would suggest Teeing off the return line, with the new line returning back to you sump. Put a valve on that line. You can reduce the amount of water pumped to the tank by opening the valve (returning to the sump) more, without putting excess strain on your pump.


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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanish View Post
A durso usually has a completely submerged L section inside the overflow. I'm not sure combining the overflow and L into one assembly is going to work to give you the silent Durso action you're looking for. I believe the water level inside the bulkhead should be about half full, with no air entering from the tank side (that's what keeps it quiet).

As far as the pump, yes you're going to need something with a good amount of of head rating. Two things:

1.) DC pumps are usually more efficient and better for dialing down electrically. I don't know what options are out there for smaller systems.
2.) I would suggest Teeing off the return line, with the new line returning back to you sump. Put a valve on that line. You can reduce the amount of water pumped to the tank by opening the valve (returning to the sump) more, without putting excess strain on your pump.
I see so the way I have it set up the air will get sucked in through the tank side making the durso obsolete. I want to get some surface skimming action and that is why I wanted to do it this way. I am wondering if with such a low flow will I have that much noise to begin with. I could always do it this way and modify the overflow if noise is a problem by submerging the overflow. I also got the suggestion of putting a valve on the end of the outflow so the pipe only has water in it but that to me seems like asking for trouble.

I think I am going with a danner mag 3 pump and am going to have 2 return lines, one going to the main pool and one powering the waterfall. I am thinking I will put a valve on at least the return going to the pool possibly both to control the flow going to the waterfall. Would this be the same as your suggestion of running a line back to the sump?

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedudeabides View Post
I see so the way I have it set up the air will get sucked in through the tank side making the durso obsolete. I want to get some surface skimming action and that is why I wanted to do it this way. I am wondering if with such a low flow will I have that much noise to begin with. I could always do it this way and modify the overflow if noise is a problem by submerging the overflow. I also got the suggestion of putting a valve on the end of the outflow so the pipe only has water in it but that to me seems like asking for trouble.

I think I am going with a danner mag 3 pump and am going to have 2 return lines, one going to the main pool and one powering the waterfall. I am thinking I will put a valve on at least the return going to the pool possibly both to control the flow going to the waterfall. Would this be the same as your suggestion of running a line back to the sump?
Its entirely possible that I ( or we) am overthinking this on a small system. There may not be enough water moving that noise is a problem. I think it might be possible to achieve what you're looking for by placing a downward U section between your overflow and the bulkhead. The U would fill with water completely, forcing the air to come in from the durso instead of the overflow.

Tuning a valve on the outflow is only a good idea if you have a secondary / emergency outflow. The beananimal overflow system works on this concept. First pipe is entirely water (by tuning the valve on it), second is just the slightest trickle, third is emergency.

The idea of having a line that returns to the sump is that you are controlling how much water goes to the tank without impacting back pressure on your pump. Therefore, splitting some to the waterfall does not achieve that, as its still entering the tank.

I highly recommend valves on each in/out as its very nice to be able to shut off or change the flow to each particular section. Once again, may be overkill for your particular application. The valve on the line coming into the sump is for when you want to isolate water in the tank.


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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanish View Post
Its entirely possible that I ( or we) am overthinking this on a small system. There may not be enough water moving that noise is a problem. I think it might be possible to achieve what you're looking for by placing a downward U section between your overflow and the bulkhead. The U would fill with water completely, forcing the air to come in from the durso instead of the overflow.
So if I used a U would that work if the system was gravity fed and did not have a siphon?

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 05:53 PM
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So if I used a U would that work if the system was gravity fed and did not have a siphon?
I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.


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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
Basically since there would be no siphon effect since gravity is what is moving the water would there be enough force for the water to travel up the U piece? Then again if you are eliminating the air in the overflow I guess that would create a siphon. Hopefully this makes sense but I am still trying to learn all this plumbing stuff.

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-12-2018, 06:31 PM
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No, there wouldn't be a siphon. The U needs to be below both the overflow and the bulkhead. It will be full of water, but the overflow will be exposed to air from the tank, and bulkhead will be exposed to air from the durso. Maybe I can find some time to draw it up in the near future.


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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-13-2018, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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That makes sense how far below the bulkhead and overflow would be enough?

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-13-2018, 05:27 PM
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This is pretty much what I am envisioning. My reasoning for why it would work could be totally off base, though.

Bump: Now I'm starting to think it wouldn't make a dang bit of difference.

Sorry...

Bump: Gah ... I suddenly cannot convince myself either way.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-14-2018, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Ha I know what you mean, plumbing for this project has me second guessing myself all over the place. I might just go with an overflow box since I can buy a kit that is pretty much plug and play, but where's the fun in that?

Well that's just like.........your opinion man.


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