No more pearling from carpet. what could be the reason? - The Planted Tank Forum
 2Likes
  • 2 Post By Deanna
  • 2 Post By houseofcards
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
kashif314's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 540
No more pearling from carpet. what could be the reason?

I use to see frequent bubbles emerge from my carpet all day but recently it stopped happening. What could be the reason and is it a sign of some problem?

Carpet looks very healthy. Just grew a little bit tall and I didn't trimmed because I like a little thick. But as I said the difference is minimal. Very very minimal. What could be reason of no bubbles?

Attached picture of carpet. Thanks.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG-20171107-WA0002_1510018982436.jpg
Views:	175
Size:	192.8 KB
ID:	801810  

kashif314 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 01:23 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: PA
Posts: 1,713
Have you made any changes in anything else (light, CO2, ferts, flow - ANYTHING)? Have your plants changed at all in terms of growth or health?

Pearling does not mean your plants aren't healthy. If your oxygen levels are at saturation, the O2 released by the plants can't be absorbed and you see the pearling. However, if your O2 is below saturation, the O2 will be absorbed before it can be observed as bubbles on a leaf. Higher consumption of O2 by fish and/or higher gas exchange at the surface from good rippling can reduce that saturation. I get very little pearling and only occasionally.

Of course, deteriorating plant health can also reduce it which is why I ask about any changes in plant health.
clownplanted and clownplanted like this.
Deanna is offline  
post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
kashif314's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
Have you made any changes in anything else (light, CO2, ferts, flow - ANYTHING)? Have your plants changed at all in terms of growth or health?

Pearling does not mean your plants aren't healthy. If your oxygen levels are at saturation, the O2 released by the plants can't be absorbed and you see the pearling. However, if your O2 is below saturation, the O2 will be absorbed before it can be observed as bubbles on a leaf. Higher consumption of O2 by fish and/or higher gas exchange at the surface from good rippling can reduce that saturation. I get very little pearling and only occasionally.

Of course, deteriorating plant health can also reduce it which is why I ask about any changes in plant health.
Thanks a lot for the detailed reply. I made one change that is reduced the liquid carbon quantity. I am not using pressurized co2. Recommended dosage for a 6 gallon is 0.5 ml of Seachem excel. I was overdosing in the beginning as misunderstood and was dosing 2.5 ml daily but that dosage is for after a major partial water change. Could this be reason? I reduced because my plants are not co2 demanding so there is no need to provide excess carbon. However plants are very healthy and growing considerably. I attached the recent picture I took yesterday after trimming down the back wall. Please suggest shall I need to do anything or let it go as it is as things are going perfect.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	_20171106_013245_1510099825508.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	67.3 KB
ID:	801994  

kashif314 is offline  
 
post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-07-2017, 11:16 PM
Banned
 
PTrader: (73/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 5,942
I'm sure the growth has slowed without co2, thus the lack of pearling.
houseofcards is offline  
post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 12:23 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: PA
Posts: 1,713
I agree with @houseofcards. By pulling the carbon supplement, you probably slowed the growth rate considerably. Carbon is what plants use to make their mass. When I had a low-tech tank, I dosed double the Seachem directions every other day and then double the max recommended after each weekly water change.

If everything remains healthy - and you probably won't know for a week or two - you are ok at the lower dose. However, check the PAR value for your lights (should be below ~45). I wouldn't want to see your plants start to suffer from the light being too strong and being starved for carbon. Sounds like you had accidentally found a sweet spot for your setup.

In fact, you could probably test the pearling issue by going back to the original dosing and see if it returns. In any case, you shouldn't have any problems at 1.0 ml daily. Another option is to go back to 2.5 daily and reduce it by 1/2 ml every week and watch plant health, ultimately trying to get it down to no more than 1 ml daily.

Edit: thinking this through more, I would use that last suggestion; go back to 2.5 ml as you were and reduce by .5 ml each week. I have a great concern that moving from 2.5 to .5 is too much of a shock for your plants. Doing it gradually will allow you and your plants time to watch and adapt.

Last edited by Deanna; 11-08-2017 at 01:21 AM. Reason: edit
Deanna is offline  
post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
kashif314's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
I'm sure the growth has slowed without co2, thus the lack of pearling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
I agree with @houseofcards. By pulling the carbon supplement, you probably slowed the growth rate considerably. Carbon is what plants use to make their mass. When I had a low-tech tank, I dosed double the Seachem directions every other day and then double the max recommended after each weekly water change.

If everything remains healthy - and you probably won't know for a week or two - you are ok at the lower dose. However, check the PAR value for your lights (should be below ~45). I wouldn't want to see your plants start to suffer from the light being too strong and being starved for carbon. Sounds like you had accidentally found a sweet spot for your setup.

In fact, you could probably test the pearling issue by going back to the original dosing and see if it returns. In any case, you shouldn't have any problems at 1.0 ml daily. Another option is to go back to 2.5 daily and reduce it by 1/2 ml every week and watch plant health, ultimately trying to get it down to no more than 1 ml daily.

Edit: thinking this through more, I would use that last suggestion; go back to 2.5 ml as you were and reduce by .5 ml each week. I have a great concern that moving from 2.5 to .5 is too much of a shock for your plants. Doing it gradually will allow you and your plants time to watch and adapt.
Thanks a lot for the replies. The thing is that I lowered dose for two reasons mainly.

1) Someone in nano tank forum told me that plants in my tank are not co2 demanding and hence I should dose low as suggested by Seachem.

2) I have shrimps in this tank only. I am not sure if dosing 1 ml for 6 gallon daily would heart shrimps. What you think is it OK to double dose with shrimps?

After I started low excel dose the plants growth remain same and very fast. I don't know how to measure PAR of light but my light is very bright. My only concern is shrimps. I noticed they became less active so I assumed maybe its because of more co2 in tank. Please suggest what would you do if in my shoes? Attaching tank pictures again to give you idea about carpet and plants. Please have a look at the attached pictures. Thanks.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	_20171106_013245_1510121242780.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	67.3 KB
ID:	802122  

Click image for larger version

Name:	_20171107_033925_1510121281540.jpg
Views:	51
Size:	56.5 KB
ID:	802130  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_4707_1510121324227.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	45.8 KB
ID:	802138  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_4610_1510121375179.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	41.8 KB
ID:	802146  

Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_4683_1510121423795.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	50.1 KB
ID:	802154  

kashif314 is offline  
post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 12:59 PM
Banned
 
PTrader: (73/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 5,942
Quote:
Originally Posted by kashif314 View Post
...

1) Someone in nano tank forum told me that plants in my tank are not co2 demanding and hence I should dose low as suggested by Seachem.
.
True Peargrass right? Its not co2 demanding, but there's still a big difference between it's growth rate with/without co2. With a slower growth rate and good light, etc all the same the tank might not work the way it did when co2 was being supplied. Slower growth means more organic content in the water with strong light that might result in algae issues.
houseofcards is offline  
post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 04:12 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 990
the more co2 the more pearling
IntotheWRX is offline  
post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 06:44 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
kashif314's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kashif314 View Post
...

1) Someone in nano tank forum told me that plants in my tank are not co2 demanding and hence I should dose low as suggested by Seachem.
.
True Peargrass right? Its not co2 demanding, but there's still a big difference between it's growth rate with/without co2. With a slower growth rate and good light, etc all the same the tank might not work the way it did when co2 was being supplied. Slower growth means more organic content in the water with strong light that might result in algae issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntotheWRX View Post
the more co2 the more pearling
Thanks for the replies. Actually I am not sure which carpet I have. Can you please Identify from the above thumbnails in my last post? Someone on another forum said it might be HC Cuba and if its that I read it requires high co2. Please advise if its HC Cuba?
kashif314 is offline  
post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 07:03 PM
Banned
 
PTrader: (73/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 5,942
The pics are too blurry. Could be monte carlo as well. I don't think it's HC.

BTW: Did you get the pearling after a water change or after you trimmed?

Last edited by houseofcards; 11-08-2017 at 07:15 PM. Reason: add
houseofcards is offline  
post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
kashif314's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
The pics are too blurry. Could be monte carlo as well. I don't think it's HC.

BTW: Did you get the pearling after a water change or after you trimmed?
Pearling stopped completely. Not before or after water change. Also the carpet I didn't trim after buying tank. I bought this tank aquascaped by store. But as I see the carpet didn't grow too much and got a little bit thick. Very minimal difference. No trimming could be a cause?
kashif314 is offline  
post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-08-2017, 09:04 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
JusticeBeaver's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 373
Honestly as long as your plants look healthy I wouldn't worry about it. Pearling only really occurs when your plants have abundant CO2 and the water is saturated with oxygen. Damage to your plants can also cause pearling. Slightly increasing circulation in your tank can also stop pearling as well.
JusticeBeaver is offline  
post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 02:09 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: PA
Posts: 1,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by kashif314 View Post
Thanks a lot for the replies. The thing is that I lowered dose for two reasons mainly.

1) Someone in nano tank forum told me that plants in my tank are not co2 demanding and hence I should dose low as suggested by Seachem.

2) I have shrimps in this tank only. I am not sure if dosing 1 ml for 6 gallon daily would heart shrimps. What you think is it OK to double dose with shrimps?
Answering your questions:

1) While some of your plants may be low demanding of CO2, you are not injecting CO2, so they are getting very little of it given what I suspect to be a high light source (try to find the PAR values for that light). Glut products, such as Excel, cannot replace CO2 one-for-one. Glut is much less efficient than CO2 in providing carbon.

2) You were dosing Excel at five times recommended levels. Were your shrimp hurt? How long had you been doing that?

Glut is also an algaecide. At 2.5 ml, you were probably killing any algae before it could start. Additionally, as I mentioned earlier, your plants will coast on their healthy status for a few weeks. We won’t know what will happen to your plant health until it is a few weeks after the dosage change. This is why I think you should slowly adapt them to declining Excel dosing, so you can watch fauna and flora along the way.
Deanna is offline  
post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 03:33 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by kashif314 View Post
Thanks for the replies. Actually I am not sure which carpet I have. Can you please Identify from the above thumbnails in my last post? Someone on another forum said it might be HC Cuba and if its that I read it requires high co2. Please advise if its HC Cuba?
def not hc cuba

looks very like monte carlo

pearling is not necessary to have a healthy tank. as long as your plants look good, you good. crank up the co2 and see if you get more pearling. excel in my experience makes pearling easier. but try not to use it as a crutch.
IntotheWRX is offline  
post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 11-09-2017, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
kashif314's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticeBeaver View Post
Honestly as long as your plants look healthy I wouldn't worry about it. Pearling only really occurs when your plants have abundant CO2 and the water is saturated with oxygen. Damage to your plants can also cause pearling. Slightly increasing circulation in your tank can also stop pearling as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kashif314 View Post
Thanks a lot for the replies. The thing is that I lowered dose for two reasons mainly.

1) Someone in nano tank forum told me that plants in my tank are not co2 demanding and hence I should dose low as suggested by Seachem.

2) I have shrimps in this tank only. I am not sure if dosing 1 ml for 6 gallon daily would heart shrimps. What you think is it OK to double dose with shrimps?
Answering your questions:

1) While some of your plants may be low demanding of CO2, you are not injecting CO2, so they are getting very little of it given what I suspect to be a high light source (try to find the PAR values for that light). Glut products, such as Excel, cannot replace CO2 one-for-one. Glut is much less efficient than CO2 in providing carbon.

2) You were dosing Excel at five times recommended levels. Were your shrimp hurt? How long had you been doing that?

Glut is also an algaecide. At 2.5 ml, you were probably killing any algae before it could start. Additionally, as I mentioned earlier, your plants will coast on their healthy status for a few weeks. We won?t know what will happen to your plant health until it is a few weeks after the dosage change. This is why I think you should slowly adapt them to declining Excel dosing, so you can watch fauna and flora along the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntotheWRX View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kashif314 View Post
Thanks for the replies. Actually I am not sure which carpet I have. Can you please Identify from the above thumbnails in my last post? Someone on another forum said it might be HC Cuba and if its that I read it requires high co2. Please advise if its HC Cuba?
def not hc cuba

looks very like monte carlo

pearling is not necessary to have a healthy tank. as long as your plants look good, you good. crank up the co2 and see if you get more pearling. excel in my experience makes pearling easier. but try not to use it as a crutch.
Thanks a lot guys for thd detailed replies. So I am relieved now and will start dosing excel good quantity again and will slowly reducd quantity as suggested by you. When I was dosing high I didn't have many shrimps but now its a shrimp only tank so that's why I was concerned.

Seachem support staff suggested me 0.6 ml and 2.9 after a water change. But I will dose 1 ml I think.
kashif314 is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome