Cycling a new "planted" tank with Dr Tims - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-18-2017, 06:09 PM Thread Starter
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Cycling a new "planted" tank with Dr Tims

Hi Guys,

I am setting up a new planted tank - 40 gal breeder.

I have purchased Dr Tims Ammonuin Chloride solution and Nitrifying bacteria.
This is the process that I am going to follow :

1. Setup hardscape
2. Plant my aquatic plants, Setup CO2
3. Add water
4. Use Dr Tims method till the plant cycles (Add ammonia and Nitrifying bacteria)
5. Add fish

So I am really confused about cycling in a new planted tank. Should I be adding plants before or after I use Dr Tim's method?
Will the excess ammonia harm the plants in any way?

Also, I am going to do EI for fertilizers, when can I start fertilization? after the tank is cycled? while the tank is cycling?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-18-2017, 06:28 PM
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The plants will benefit from the extra nutrients in the water during the cycle. Plant away! If ferts are needed you can add them. Just note that some ferts will affect your test readings, especially nitrate. Make sure to take that into account.


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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-18-2017, 07:13 PM
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I just moved about 18 small fish into a separate 10g to grow out using "instant cycle". I merely 'washed' the sponges from one of my 60g filters in the new tank and added the fish an hour later (The new tank had a HOB with bio-sponge material).

With Dr. Tim's One and Only, you should be able to plant, add Dr Tim's and add fish right away. Fish will generate the ammonia that the BB need. I suppose you could add ammonia and wait a day or two before adding fish...but if it's a good culture, you should be able to add a few fish right away.

I know of experienced hobbyists that plant a tank and add some fish right away without a 'bacteria in a bottle' product. As long as it's just a few fish, the plants will handle the ammonia as the BB develops.

Tank On, Mike-
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10g, 29g, & 37g fry grow out tanks, 110g stock tank.


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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-19-2017, 12:46 PM
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If your doing a hi-tech co2 planted tank why not setup the tank, put the plants in, tinker with it so it looks the way you want it. See if the plants are growing well and no bad algae is developing. Let the plant mass get bigger and once you have it the way you want it add the fish probably 3-5 weeks later.

Between healthy growing plants and water changes (hi-tech) you really don't have to worry about a formal cycle if your letting the tank develop. You then add fish slowly and between the BB, plant growth and water changes everything will be fine.

BTW - I assure you there is bacteria on every plant you put in that tank. There is also going to be ammonia produced from any dying leaf. For me those BB products are just a waste in a PLANTED tank. There really shouldn't be a hurry to load the tank with fish. Just my 2 cents.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-19-2017, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhaval.sonawane1 View Post
So I am really confused about cycling in a new planted tank. Should I be adding plants before or after I use Dr Tim's method?
Will the excess ammonia harm the plants in any way?

Also, I am going to do EI for fertilizers, when can I start fertilization? after the tank is cycled? while the tank is cycling?
Don't know Dr. Tim?

Excess ammonia can burn plants.
1.5 - 2ppm of NH3 would be as high as I would go.

Ferts can be fine from day one.
Plant mass would determine dosing.
Not many plants maybe 1/4 to 1/3 EI.

We all consider plant mass differently.
Large plant mass doesn't look the same to everyone.

Substrate can also affect what is going on, also no mention of lighting.
Could not make recommendation knowing so little.


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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-19-2017, 03:31 PM
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Don't know Dr. Tim?

"The President of DrTimís Aquatics is Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec who, for 17 years, was the Chief Science Officer of Aquaria Inc., the parent company of Marineland Aquarium Products, Aquarium Systems (Instant Ocean) and Perfecto Manufacturing."


I'll confess to having some mixed feelings about bacteria in a bottle products. I think there are some that just might be snake oil but some might really jump start a healthy ecosystem.

Tank On, Mike-
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10g, 29g, & 37g fry grow out tanks, 110g stock tank.


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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-19-2017, 03:47 PM
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I don't think they're all snake oil, just not necessary in a planted tank. At the end of the day Dr Tim's main goal is to sell product. You know they also sell Betta Water, Aquarium Glue and other "can't live without" products.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-19-2017, 05:58 PM
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Nope, still don't know Dr. Tim.


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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-19-2017, 08:00 PM
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Nope, still don't know Dr. Tim.
And Dr. Tim don't know no Maryland Guppy none neither!

Tank On, Mike-
60g Marineland Community, Finnex Planted+ 24/7, Silica (pool filter) sand.
10g, 29g, & 37g fry grow out tanks, 110g stock tank.


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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 10:10 AM
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And Dr. Tim don't know no Maryland Guppy none neither!
^^^ All of the above are good people!

Tim migrated over from the aquaculture industry to join Aquari, Inc. (Marineland aquarium products) in 1990 - a good chunk of their business at that time was commerical lobster tanks - when they were still located in Simi Valley, Ca... and still American made... then they moved to Moorepark, Ca in the beginning of 1993... then some of their manufactured goods were starting to be assembled in Mexico... and then Tetra... and then the politics of Tetra... then... and then.

When he started in 1990, the owner of the company gave him free reign to set-up a research lab & research program with an emphasis on aquarium filters from a biological standpoint - giving birth to the BioWheel. Of course the 'big-boy' competitors gave him hell, saying it was a complete gimmick (and that nitrifying bacteria can't grow on a small spinning wheel). Water/wastewater professionals surely knew better, because RBC's (rotating biological contactors) were definitely "doing it" in their treatment processes.

Anyway... Tim (and his group) started diving deeper into nitrifying bacteria, along with wanting to be able to see and count the nitrifying bacteria. His quest/project turned into a Ph.D. dissertation (which the owner of Aquaria let him do) and he was accepted as a Ph.D. student at UCSB in 1993. Five years later (in 1998) he earned his Ph.D. and the title of "Dr.".

Over the course of those 5 years, his research showed that Nitrospira-like bacteria, not Nitrobacter, were the bacteria responsible for nitrification in many different types of aquatic systems. After earning his Ph.D., and another 4 years down the road, he continued the search for other nitrifiers (e.g., freshwater ammonia-oxidizers along with saltwater nitrifiers). Tim finally confirmed the rest of the nitrifiers with the help of a few microbiologists he hired ~ including a microbiologist from Australia who had worked on nitrifying bacteria in sewage treatment plants.

Tim has done a lot to educate hobbyists on the topic of nitrification processes. I first met-up with Tim in 1991 at the second International Cichlid Conference in Orlando, Fl. and we talked in depth about nitrosomonas & nitrobacters. He showed me a prototype of a commercial use BioWheel, along with a prototype BioWheel that could be connected to a canister filter. One thing I will always remember is his passion for the hobby: hobbyist helping hobbyist.

Dr. Tim kind of reminds me of Don Dewey (FAMA magazine - long before the internet) - always supporting aquarium societies and keeping the hobbyist/aquarist interests foremost in mind. DR. TIM knows who Dr. Tim is, that's for sure!
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 02:06 PM
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Regardless of ones resume the BB in a bottle products were not created nor brought to market with planted tanks in mind. Planted changes everything.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 08-20-2017, 04:11 PM
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Regardless of ones resume the BB in a bottle products were not created nor brought to market with planted tanks in mind. Planted changes everything.
I respectfully agree... just like water-soluble fertilizer salts were not created nor brought to market with planted tanks in mind. I believe the 'BB in a bottle products' are more of a tool for the 'many' who got into this hobby with little (or no) understanding of the biological and/or chemical processes occurring within their tanks... along with the scenario of instantly pouring water into a tank, instantly adding fish... and then experiencing problems that usually snowball out of control into more complicated problems, causing many to leave and give up the hobby. I also believe this "tool" helped the company's (Aquaria Inc.) commercial line (being able to seed a commercial BioWheel and avoid the 'hurry up & wait game").
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