Does stress cause ich to fall off fish? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 02:57 AM Thread Starter
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Does stress cause ich to fall off fish?

I had about 5 or 6 fish with ich. I moved all my fish into a qt tank. The process took me a couple hours. Once they were all in the qt tank I medicated the fish using cupramine. I have been keeping a close eye on them and none of my fish have visible signs of ich anymore. Obviously, I will continue treatment, but I was curious if anybody else has experienced this.

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post #2 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 04:29 AM
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Stress? Stress makes fish quickly burn all their energy in an adreline outburst, this depresses their inmune system. An ideal example would be a scared fish that darts away like a bullet, make him do that several times and you have a severly stressed fish with more chances of falling victim to everyday infections. Fish are like humans, keep them healthy and they will be able to fight a lot of stuff on their own, keep them unhealthy and they can easily get sick.

I dont exactly know how cooper works for ich, I know it is damn strong and I know that I would use it if I didnt deal with scaleless species but it is said that ich is not treatable when it is stuck to the fish as the white spot you see isnt the parasite but the fish mucus which protects the parasite. Honestly there are a lot of variables to this thing. Ich is highly dependant on temperature and if the fish had ich for 6 days or so and your tank was kept at 25 Celsius today they would have fallen off naturally.

The only medicine I know that can kill ich when it is attached to the fish is metronidazole. You soak their food in the metronidazole solution the fish process the metronidazole and when the parasites sucks blood from the fish it dies. The only problem with metronidazole is that you can kill the fish from kidney failure if you abuse it and that it is considered carcinogenic.
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post #3 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 06:09 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the information. I am pretty familiar with the ich life cycle. I just haven't read of anybody else with my experience. I know for a fact that 6 fish out of 24 fish have ich. I caught it early, and my mistake was not qting a new addition. My thought was that they rubbed them off while I was trying to catch them, but having that happen at 100% is not possible. My fish had ich in my main tank 100% positive of that. And I have 0 white spots on them now. The spots are completely gone. So, how can this happen?

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post #4 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 06:31 AM
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If the six fish out of 24 had/have ich ,and they were pulled from the tank holding the rest of the fishes,then best move would to have been to treat the fishes all in the same tank for they all have been exposed.
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post #5 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 06:44 AM Thread Starter
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If the six fish out of 24 had/have ich ,and they were pulled from the tank holding the rest of the fishes,then best move would to have been to treat the fishes all in the same tank for they all have been exposed.
That what I am doing now. Moved all of them to a 40 gallon and treating them now. I will leave them there for 8 weeks to wait for ich to die off with no host.

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post #6 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by joebob296 View Post
That what I am doing now. Moved all of them to a 40 gallon and treating them now. I will leave them there for 8 weeks to wait for ich to die off with no host.

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Depending on temp. 14 days without a host should be plenty in the main tank, turning the heat up will speed up the life cycle. Ich is usually a sign of stress or poor water conditions or combination of both. I find keeping warmer water fish in cold water to be a large contributing factor but many kinds of stress can bring on a case of ich. Make sure you keep your nitrates below 30ppm at all times and ideally below 20ppm.

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post #7 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 02:46 PM
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I think the best prevention (and cure) for fish ailments is fresh, pure water. Keep up on routine sufficient volume water changes and fish will have strong immune systems and remain healthy and/or cure their own ills (after all, there's no medicine dosing in nature!).

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post #8 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 04:17 PM
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The problem with moving fish is that you still need to treat your display tank. Just because you don't see it on the other fish at the moment doesn't mean it isn't there.

Paraguard is a very gentle medication that works well and kills ich. It doesn't require raising the temperature and treatment last time I used it was 5 days along with water changes and vacuuming to remove eggs and any free swimmers that got sucked up in the process.
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post #9 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 06:50 PM
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The problem with moving fish is that you still need to treat your display tank. Just because you don't see it on the other fish at the moment doesn't mean it isn't there.

Paraguard is a very gentle medication that works well and kills ich. It doesn't require raising the temperature and treatment last time I used it was 5 days along with water changes and vacuuming to remove eggs and any free swimmers that got sucked up in the process.

No need to treat a tank that has no fish in it the ich will die after completing its life cycle with no hosts to feed off. But I agree if there are any fish left in the main tank that tank should be treated as well.

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post #10 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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There are no fish left in the main tank. I will leave the main tank empty for six weeks to wait for it to die off. What I'm trying to find out is what can cause 100% of all the white spots to fall off every fish within a few hours time.

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post #11 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-12-2017, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
I think the best prevention (and cure) for fish ailments is fresh, pure water. Keep up on routine sufficient volume water changes and fish will have strong immune systems and remain healthy and/or cure their own ills (after all, there's no medicine dosing in nature!).

Very much agree with you in prevention but I have to disagree with treatment. Ich is not present in all water sources and fish in areas where it is present have adapted to become more resistant. It is also a form of natural selection that keeps populations healthy by eliminating the weak. If you look at the survival rates of most species in the wild vs aquarium from spawn/hatch etc. to adult it is far far lower than tank raised. Even with ich in aquariums its not uncommon to have 1-2 survive an outbreak of ich but 1-2 out of 40 fish is an expensive venture to continue. Whether its heat, salt, meds etc. I feel some form of treatment is necessary as soon as possible once ich has been observed.

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Originally Posted by joebob296 View Post
There are no fish left in the main tank. I will leave the main tank empty for six weeks to wait for it to die off. What I'm trying to find out is what can cause 100% of all the white spots to fall off every fish within a few hours time.

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This is more than likely what is happening. 1 or more of your fish may have been infected or developed and infection of ich. The temperature plays the biggest role in terms of how fast ich progresses through its life cycle and with all your fish being in the same tank the life cycle will be nearly identical. Usually ich starts in the gills and minor infections cannot be seen until those parasites drop off to the bottom of the tank as cysts. They would hatch nearly at all the same time because of the temp. releasing hundreds to thousands of new parasites that will look to find hosts. This is an explosion in the population and usually when you will see within a couple days the salt like marks on fish which is the parasite being covered by the protective slime created by the fish to try and combat the parasite. It fill feed until and get slightly larger until its is ready to drop off and repeat the cycle. Again heat is the factor that controls the speed of which this happens so what you are seeing is most if not all the parasites have fed and dropped off into the cyst stage and will hatch soon releasing exponential levels of new parasites looking to find a host. This is the stage at which ich is vulnerable and heat, meds etc will kill it in its free swimming stage. When its in the cyst stage and attached to the fish it is protected. The slime coat the fish produces actually protect the parasite from meds.

I can't say 100% but I'm fairly confident what you are seeing is this.

Dan

Last edited by Darkblade48; 06-13-2017 at 01:28 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #12 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dman911 View Post
Very much agree with you in prevention but I have to disagree with treatment. Ich is not present in all water sources and fish in areas where it is present have adapted to become more resistant. It is also a form of natural selection that keeps populations healthy by eliminating the weak. If you look at the survival rates of most species in the wild vs aquarium from spawn/hatch etc. to adult it is far far lower than tank raised. Even with ich in aquariums its not uncommon to have 1-2 survive an outbreak of ich but 1-2 out of 40 fish is an expensive venture to continue. Whether its heat, salt, meds etc. I feel some form of treatment is necessary as soon as possible once ich has been observed.

Dan



This is more than likely what is happening. 1 or more of your fish may have been infected or developed and infection of ich. The temperature plays the biggest role in terms of how fast ich progresses through its life cycle and with all your fish being in the same tank the life cycle will be nearly identical. Usually ich starts in the gills and minor infections cannot be seen until those parasites drop off to the bottom of the tank as cysts. They would hatch nearly at all the same time because of the temp. releasing hundreds to thousands of new parasites that will look to find hosts. This is an explosion in the population and usually when you will see within a couple days the salt like marks on fish which is the parasite being covered by the protective slime created by the fish to try and combat the parasite. It fill feed until and get slightly larger until its is ready to drop off and repeat the cycle. Again heat is the factor that controls the speed of which this happens so what you are seeing is most if not all the parasites have fed and dropped off into the cyst stage and will hatch soon releasing exponential levels of new parasites looking to find a host. This is the stage at which ich is vulnerable and heat, meds etc will kill it in its free swimming stage. When its in the cyst stage and attached to the fish it is protected. The slime coat the fish produces actually protect the parasite from meds.

I can't say 100% but I'm fairly confident what you are seeing is this.

Dan
Thank you for the response. I just think it is highly unlikely that they all fell off within the same few hours. However, the way you described It, I tend to agree.

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post #13 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joebob296 View Post
I had about 5 or 6 fish with ich. I moved all my fish into a qt tank. The process took me a couple hours. Once they were all in the qt tank I medicated the fish using cupramine. I have been keeping a close eye on them and none of my fish have visible signs of ich anymore. Obviously, I will continue treatment, but I was curious if anybody else has experienced this.

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I have had something similar happen. In my case, I missed the ich in a quarantine tank and wound up putting the QT fish into my main tank. It is most likely a lighting issue. My QT tanks typically don't have great lighting on the tank. Stressed fish typically lose color. The combination makes it difficult to see the ich. Try hitting the fish with a flashlight or other bright light and you will see the ich.
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Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
I think the best prevention (and cure) for fish ailments is fresh, pure water. Keep up on routine sufficient volume water changes and fish will have strong immune systems and remain healthy and/or cure their own ills (after all, there's no medicine dosing in nature!).
Eh. No In the wild, fish live for about 1/10th the time. They also live in about 100x the volume of water. Ich is an oppurtunistic predatory parasite. Fish can survive ich, but ich has an exponential reproductive cycle. Put it in a small box with lots of food(fish skin) and it will go crazy. The "clean water" comment is bunk. If I use clean water, will my shrimp be better able to survive my discus? Of course not. A strong immune system doesn't really help with ich. Unless you have some new and special insight into ich.
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post #14 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 04:25 PM
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I highly doubt that regular fish stress or ick stress will cause the ick to die. They are highly adaptable and this can be supported by the process of how you received ick. Stress won't kill ick, they adapt. High temperatures and treatments will.



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post #15 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
I think the best prevention (and cure) for fish ailments is fresh, pure water. Keep up on routine sufficient volume water changes and fish will have strong immune systems and remain healthy and/or cure their own ills (after all, there's no medicine dosing in nature!).
One of the problems with comments like this one is that it assumes Ich is a "disease" or a"sickness".
This is why I was so rude earlier. Ich is NOT a sickness. Ich is not a fish disease.

***Ich is an animal, not a disease***
Ich is a parasite. It is a small animal!!
Ich is an animal that attacks your fish and eats the skin off your fish. If you have a bad animal in your aquarium, you don't perform water changes. You get the bad animal out!!!!
People have this weird problem with confusing all things that make fish sick or make fish die. They must all be "sickness". This is not sickness. This is not a virus or a bacteria. This is a very tiny little bug that is literally eating the flesh of your fish and then having hundreds of little babies.

***SALT***
This is also why people have such a problem using the right amount of salt to kill ich. Salt isn't a "medicine" that cures a disease.
Ich is an animal, just like your fish. Ich is more sensitive to salt than SOME fish(and only at a certain time of its lifecycle). When you add salt to an aquarium to kill ich, you are adding enough salt to hurt freshwater animals. That is the whole point. That is why it might be so much that it kills your fish!! Some freshwater animals are VERY sensitive to salt. Some don't care(mollies/guppies). You have to add enough salt to your aquarium that you start killing freshwater animals(ich).

Can ich fall off because of fish stress?
This ich=animal thing is important to the whole question of it falling off because of the fish.
Ich does whatever it wants. It doesn't care about the fish. It will gladly kill the fish. It doesn't fall off until it completes its lifecycle.
The fish has ZERO control over the ich.

Think about ticks on your own body. Will ticks fall off of your body because of your distress? No.
They might fall off if you start losing enough skin that they fall off with the skin. I don't think your fish lost enough scales to knock off the ich.

Last edited by pucksr; 06-13-2017 at 04:48 PM. Reason: fixing stuff
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