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post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 10:20 PM Thread Starter
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Aquarium Coop

Hey guys,

Has anyone heard of

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/pages/h...uarantine-fish

He suggest a pre-med approach followed by observation. As oppose to what's commonly suggested everywhere, the reverse. Had anyone had any experience with this when buying new fish or is this all going to be torture for the new arrivals.

Adam
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post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-01-2017, 11:16 PM
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Big question! Do we take our kids in to be treated for ringworms because lots of kids have ringworms or do we wait and see if they need treatment?
The point of time in QT is to see what's up with new fish. Most meds walk a fine line between killing the bad stuff as well as the good stuff, so I don't treat until I see what and why.
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post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 12:12 AM
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Hi nxreliant1864,

I have known Cory personally for about 7 years. He is an active member of our local aquarium club, and about four years ago started Aquarium Co-op north of Seattle. I have been to his store many times, although it is 20 miles each way, he sells quality, healthy fish at reasonable prices. As for dosing meds when adding new fish I think that is an individual decision. If I purchase fish from another fish club member, go to there home and see the condition of their tanks and the health of their fish then I might not medicate. If I am purchasing fish at a LFS (or worse yet Petco or Petsmart - which I don't do) I would certainly consider quarantine and medication.

My personal experience is this, last Thanksgiving I had a 75 gallon tank filled with beautiful Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Anjiko' (Boesmani Rainbowfish) that I had raised from eggs that I received from Gary Lange, the rainbowfish explorer, collector, and breeder. These weren't fish from an Asian fish farm, these were F3 generation from fish collected in the wild and were almost 2years old and just fantastic, they had just started breeding. I lost a couple of Otos in that tank and the diatoms (brown algae) were starting to accumulate so I went to a LFS (not Cory's) and purchased a couple of Otos. Long story short; although the aquarium I purchased them out of looked fine the fish must have had something. Within 3 weeks all 18 of the adult Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Anjiko' were dead. To me the fish were priceless; needless to say I was devastated. I didn't quarantine, and I didn't medicate and it cost me dearly......lesson learned.

75 Gallon with Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Anjiko'
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post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 12:20 AM
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It depends on the situation, but I prefer quarantine and observation. Sometime, if I'm purchasing a fish that is well know to come in with diseases (wild caught catfish species for example), then I might pre-medicate for something I'm sure they're going to have.


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post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi nxreliant1864,

I have known Cory personally for about 7 years. He is an active member of our local aquarium club, and about four years ago started Aquarium Co-op north of Seattle. I have been to his store many times, although it is 20 miles each way, he sells quality, healthy fish at reasonable prices. As for dosing meds when adding new fish I think that is an individual decision. If I purchase fish from another fish club member, go to there home and see the condition of their tanks and the health of their fish then I might not medicate. If I am purchasing fish at a LFS (or worse yet Petco or Petsmart - which I don't do) I would certainly consider quarantine and medication.

My personal experience is this, last Thanksgiving I had a 75 gallon tank filled with beautiful Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Anjiko' (Boesmani Rainbowfish) that I had raised from eggs that I received from Gary Lange, the rainbowfish explorer, collector, and breeder. These weren't fish from an Asian fish farm, these were F3 generation from fish collected in the wild and were almost 2years old and just fantastic, they had just started breeding. I lost a couple of Otos in that tank and the diatoms (brown algae) were starting to accumulate so I went to a LFS (not Cory's) and purchased a couple of Otos. Long story short; although the aquarium I purchased them out of looked fine the fish must have had something. Within 3 weeks all 18 of the adult Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Anjiko' were dead. To me the fish were priceless; needless to say I was devastated. I didn't quarantine, and I didn't medicate and it cost me dearly......lesson learned.

75 Gallon with Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Anjiko'
Oh noooo. That's terrible. I completely understand, after that experience I'd be cautious too.

I guess I have to think about it some more. I still have plenty of time. I'm just starting to plant today and I'm setting up a quarantine tank tomorrow. They'll both be running a while long before I make my first purchase. Thanks everyone and nice to meet you all. ;-)
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post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 12:40 AM
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I'm not one to medicate in the name of simply doing so. There is a time and a place for it.

That being said, @Seattle_Aquarist has a point. I have never lost a tank of fish due to putting fish from questionable places in my tanks, but I have noticed something else along those lines.

When I buy fish from clean, healthy stores, the fish live a long time and thrive. In my case I use my BH tetras as a example. They turned 6-years old this year. On the other hand, I struggle with keeping fish from places like Pet Co around for a year. So far I have a ram and one White Skirt tetra that has made it past the 1 year mark. I consider this a accomplishment.

Yesterday hubby and I made the trip to my healthy fish store. The problem is the property has been sold and my healthy LFS that I've depended on for well over 10 years no longer exists. We stopped by the local Chamber of Commerce to see if they had just moved. There were no records found and later I found a article online explaining the details of what happened.

From there we went to two different privately owned pet stores. The first store we went to had layers of dead feeder goldfish in their feeder tank stuck to the sponge filter in that tank. The rest of the tanks were murky and horrible. Second store wasn't much better. Full grown tinfoil barbs stuck in a 10-gallon that hadn't seen a water change in a few weeks and a dying parrot fish in yet another. Meanwhile, there was a clean 150 gallon with nothing in it.

After the 3 hour journey, we came home and called a friend that is in the hobby. He keeps cichlids, but is just as anal about water quality and tank health as I am. If anybody knew where to get fish, he would know. He gave us a recommendation which is over a hour away. We'll be checking the place out this weekend. I probably won't come home with fish, but I've been told that they have plants galore, so I'll probably come home with some of those.

My days of settling with my tanks and the health of the fish in my tanks are over. I'll continue to buy emersed plants from places like Pet Co, but no more fish. It is not worth it even if White Skirts are a couple of bucks. If I can't get healthy fish that are taken care of, I'm not buying any more. The ones I have I'll keep until they are gone and that will be it. It will be time to pack up the tanks and call it a experience.
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post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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That's my biggest fear in NYC. So many crappy fish stores with dead fish everywhere. It's not easy bc to them it's money and not a passion.
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post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi nxreliant1864,

I have known Cory personally for about 7 years. He is an active member of our local aquarium club, and about four years ago started Aquarium Co-op north of Seattle. I have been to his store many times, although it is 20 miles each way, he sells quality, healthy fish at reasonable prices. As for dosing meds when adding new fish I think that is an individual decision. If I purchase fish from another fish club member, go to there home and see the condition of their tanks and the health of their fish then I might not medicate. If I am purchasing fish at a LFS (or worse yet Petco or Petsmart - which I don't do) I would certainly consider quarantine and medication.

My personal experience is this, last Thanksgiving I had a 75 gallon tank filled with beautiful Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Anjiko' (Boesmani Rainbowfish) that I had raised from eggs that I received from Gary Lange, the rainbowfish explorer, collector, and breeder. These weren't fish from an Asian fish farm, these were F3 generation from fish collected in the wild and were almost 2years old and just fantastic, they had just started breeding. I lost a couple of Otos in that tank and the diatoms (brown algae) were starting to accumulate so I went to a LFS (not Cory's) and purchased a couple of Otos. Long story short; although the aquarium I purchased them out of looked fine the fish must have had something. Within 3 weeks all 18 of the adult Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Anjiko' were dead. To me the fish were priceless; needless to say I was devastated. I didn't quarantine, and I didn't medicate and it cost me dearly......lesson learned.

75 Gallon with Melanotaenia boesemani 'Lake Anjiko'
I agree with the bad feeling you now have but then how to respond would still be a question. If you were going to medicate, what would you treat them for as it is still not obvious what they might have been needing? Quarantine is a definite for cases like this but the treatment is not likely enough to be right for me to waste the time, effort and money to simply say they have "X" disease and I need to use "Y" med to treat it. My point is not that it is always bad but that the odds of shotgun treatments being correct is too small for me to put the fish through as a routine. I'm afraid there are too many cases where we might treat for worms and weaken the fish, only to find that they did not have worms but develop fungus. Did the fish have fungus first and I treated for the wrong thing or did he get fungus because I knocked the whole system down with my meds?
I find I lose fewer fish if I concentrate on giving them the best conditions possible and only treat when I can ID what I am treating.
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post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 02:37 AM
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First all, its CO-OP not Coop and secondly the store is a fraud and I will tell you why.

He claims to be a CO-Op which is is absolutely not.

let me give you an example of a real Co-OP.

This frontier company which I buy my pizza seasoning from is a REAL CO-OP



When you have CO-OP, it means your suppliers are like Co-owners in the company.
For example, if you had a supermarket in which the farmers and suppliers all had ownership in the company.

Cory own 100% of that fish store. His customers are not CO-owners, his suppliers are not Co-owners, his employees are not Co-owners, his fish are not CO-owners, no one is a Co-owner.

Its like calling yourself a charity but then pocketing all the money for yourself.

He is trying to reap the benefits of a Co-op without being a CO-OP.

Its like that scandle when subway 12-inch subs were like only 10-inches and they said " 12-inch sub is just a generic name we call our large subs, not a unit of measurement" Imaging if a pawn shop save someone 12-oz cold coin that was only 10oz and said " 12oz is just what I call my 10oz gold coin" or the people on Ebay in the 90's that would sell you a photograph of whatever they claim to be selling.

You buy a car, you received a picture of a car. If you buy a cell phone, you got a picture of a cell phone,etc...

At a minimum, he should have a disclaimer saying " Fake Co-Op" , " Bogus Co-op" , " not a real Co-op" ,etc..

Just in case you wanted to know.
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post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 02:43 AM
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Don't you think that reaction is a bit unwarranted for what is essentially a grammar mistake?


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post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 02:46 AM
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Quarantine EVERYTHING, plants, fish, decorations, subrstrate, wood, etc. It'll save you headaches down the road. Have I lost fish the occasional fish from my display tanks, sure, who hasn't? some jump, some get old, etc. but I have never introduced anything into my tanks that wiped out the whole thing. Why? they died while in qt, from whatever ailment they came in with, before it got into my displays.

On the medication front. I'm a yes and no kind of person. With livestock, I observe and treat if needed. I'd rather let the fishes own immune system battle it out first, rather than potentially making something worse. However plants get an alum dip for 2 days, always, I don't want snails, and it seems to take care of anything coming in on wild collected plants as well. Also driftwood, gets boiled and soaked, prior to being introduced. this there's no harm in doing a proactive "treatment"


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post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 03:39 AM
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In one of Cory's YT videos he explained the premise for the name Co-op and stated that in hindsight that may have not been the appropriate name to use. Also he is not 100% owner as he has mentioned that he has a silent partner. Yes he does want to make money and has stated so but in essence this is a business and his job and like the majority of the population we work in some fashion to make a living.

It hasn't been mentioned but the treatment he uses is General Cure, Ich-X and Erythromycin. This med cocktail is an attempt to treat the majority of issues (both external and internal) a fish may be infected with. You can watch his YT videos on Quarantine as he explains why this combination works for him. I don't follow this exact recipe but after losing over 20 tetras after only doing a short quarantine period I now treat with General Cure and have increased my quarantine period to > 1 month. If any problem is visible to the eye I will adjust my treatment accordingly.
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post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 05:01 AM
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Don't you think that reaction is a bit unwarranted for what is essentially a grammar mistake?
I am not a grammar Nazi, trust me.

99.999% of that was claiming to be a CO-OP without being a CO-OP is dishonest. Like saying that the name of your company is " Help the vets charity" without helping the vets or being a charity.

He should change his name or add a disclaimer that he is not a CO-OP otherwise its just deception. He is doing it for a reason which is to attract the type of people who shop at certain types of stores, farmers markets, etc..

That is why I won't be giving him my business or trusting his advice.

I don't care about the grammar.
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post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 05:27 AM
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In one of Cory's YT videos he explained the premise for the name Co-op and stated that in hindsight that may have not been the appropriate name to use. Also he is not 100% owner as he has mentioned that he has a silent partner. Yes he does want to make money and has stated so but in essence this is a business and his job and like the majority of the population we work in some fashion to make a living.

It hasn't been mentioned but the treatment he uses is General Cure, Ich-X and Erythromycin. This med cocktail is an attempt to treat the majority of issues (both external and internal) a fish may be infected with. You can watch his YT videos on Quarantine as he explains why this combination works for him. I don't follow this exact recipe but after losing over 20 tetras after only doing a short quarantine period I now treat with General Cure and have increased my quarantine period to > 1 month. If any problem is visible to the eye I will adjust my treatment accordingly.
What he is doing is extremely dishonest. Also, having a silent partner does not make you a CO-OP. He is trying to get the farmer's market crowd. CO-OP products that I purchase have the farmers as CO-owners of the company that makes the seasoning.

If you want to see a real CO-OP, look at this company

https://www.frontiercoop.com/?___SID=U

This is a legit CO-OP, not a fake one.

P.S. They make some darn good pizza seasoning if you are interested.

Quote:
What is a Co-op?

Frontier Co-op has been a member-owned cooperative supporting natural living since 1976 — owned by stores and other organizations that buy and sell our products. We feel the insights and values we gain from this special relationship with our owners are at the heart of our success.
In most ways, cooperatives are like other businesses. Their facilities and equipment are much like those of their competitors and, to be successful, the businesses must be run well. Co-ops are even incorporated in most cases, filing papers with the state as a specially structured corporation. There are bylaws and other necessary legal papers. There is a board of directors that sets policy and oversees the management that runs the day-to-day operations.

The difference

But co-ops are different from other businesses in that they are owned and controlled (through the election of a Board) by members who have direct participation in the business. There are many types of co-ops, but often the participation is as a customer of the co-op. This is the case with Frontier Co-op. We’re owned, as we have been from the beginning, by our wholesale customers — the stores and other organizations that buy and resell our products. These customers provide the capital for the business to operate, take responsibility as member/owners through an elected Board of Directors and share the co-op’s earnings.

Good for business

This special relationship of ownership is at the heart of our success. We have unique insight into natural products and the people who buy them by having our member/owners in direct contact with the consumers of the products. And our co-op structure has fostered honest, responsible business practices that are increasingly valued in the marketplace.

Co-ops operate in the shared interests of their members — and that extends beyond financial interests to the underlying values of the members. We were founded amid the idealism about food, the environment and social justice of the 1970s “co-op movement.” Today, those founding values still prevail in our members and in the way we do business — and people are shopping for them.

Good for you

You care about those same values — you want high quality products that are produced with respect for the environment and the people who grow and manufacture them. Our members are collectively leaders in wholesome food, environmental stewardship and social responsibility — and the business they own is a leader in those areas as well.

The environmental and social responsibility, openness, integrity and fairness that you want in your products are available from Frontier Co-op — in large part, because we’re a co-op.

In keeping with the values of Frontier Co-op members, we've prioritized the quality of our products, provide full disclosure of ingredients, have developed new organic sources and have made our operations more sustainable. And we've made it our business to be a helpful participant in the communities our co-op is a part of — whether it's digging wells for villagers in Madagascar and Sri Lanka or clearing trash from a roadside ditch here in Iowa.

Co-op commitment

It's not that we couldn't or wouldn't do such things if we were individually owned or a traditional corporation, but being cooperatively owned by tens of thousands of members advocating for doing the right thing has definitely reinforced our values and actions. We're a different business in a different world than when we started in 1976, but Frontier Co-op's commitment to our founding values — and those of our members — remains strong.
https://www.frontiercoop.com/communi...what-is-a-coop
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post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-02-2017, 11:27 AM
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One cannot throw a brick without hitting some type of dishonesty in this hobby. The trick is seeing past the BS and ignoring the virtual brow beatings if one doesn't step in line. It is rather amusing how much arm-flailing occurs over the stupidest of things.
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