Fishless cycling safe for plant aquarium? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-25-2010, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Fishless cycling safe for plant aquarium?

I was wondering if fishless cycling was safe to do in a planted aquarium? I would like to try and have a planted aquarium up and ready for a few fish by Oct. (My local area fish club has their big auction beginning of Oct)
I think I will be doing a mineralized soil substrate on the tank and have a few small tanks that have been going and can pull started bacteria from them as well. I know it's not best to rush, but I need thing going a bit sooner than later!
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-25-2010, 05:45 PM
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yep its safe for plants. good for them in fact. lots of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate from them to process. They will also speed up your cycling time.


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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-25-2010, 09:26 PM
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+1 is fine, will actually help the process. Just make sure you do not use the wrong ammonia. I did once, and had to throw out the whole tank
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
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What type of ammonia do I need to use? Haven't don't a fishless cycle before, but it looks pretty simple.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 04:59 AM
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Just use plain, unscented ammonia, with no added detergents.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Sounds great!

Thanks!
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 01:31 PM
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I thought mine had no suffacants (misspelled) but it did, be sure you make sure it doesn't. Its soaps. And I would look hard, I missed it and I was looking for it. I was unable to find a ammonia that would work. So I just started to use dead shrimp and fish food. It took a lot longer, though.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 01:36 PM
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I have fishless cycled pretty much all my tanks with just the plants and some mulm under the gravel. You really don't need to put Ammonia in there. There is plenty of organic breakdown from the plants.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by houseofcards View Post
I have fishless cycled pretty much all my tanks with just the plants and some mulm under the gravel. You really don't need to put Ammonia in there. There is plenty of organic breakdown from the plants.
+1 I did the fishless cycle a long time ago, on a non planted tank. I have never added anything to a planted tank. But it wont hurt.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 11:40 PM
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Fishless cycyling with ammonia

I recently cycled a planted tank with ammonia. I got it from Ace Hardware. I started with 10 daily drops for a 29g. I also used the Seachem ammonia alert indicator & it worked great. It took nearly a month to go from ammonia drops in the morning to no ammonia or nitrites in the evening.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2010, 11:50 PM
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Here is the fishless cycle. The numbers were worked out by a couple of scientists that had a goal of raising the largest population of bacteria the fastest. They started with the idea that a Rift Lake Cichlid tank will be heavily stocked all at one time, and lightly planted (if at all) so it needed a really large bacteria population from day 1. The web page where I found this has not been seen for several years. I sure am glad I wrote down the details!
They also started planted tanks this way, and found that a densely planted tank would cycle in just a few days. The plants were such a big part of the nitrogen removing process that it did not matter that there were so few bacteria. Also, the plants brought in a lot of bacteria on their leaves and roots. The combination of bacteria and plants made it possible to stock a tank right away. (well, a few days to be sure that the ammonia was being handled)

Starting with mineralized soil you may want to run the tank for a couple of weeks or a month to be sure the newly submerged soil is adapting well, and has finished whatever sort of cycle it is going through adapting to life under water.

Fishless Cycle
You too can boast that "No fish were harmed in the cycling of your new tank"
Cycling a tank means to grow the beneficial bacteria that will help to decompose the fish waste (especially ammonia). These bacteria need ammonia to grow. There are 3 sources of ammonia that work to do this. One is fish. Unfortunately, the process exposes the fish to ammonia , which burns their gills, and nitrite, which makes their blood unable to carry oxygen. This often kills the fish.

Another source is decomposing protein. You could cycle your tank by adding fish food or a dead fish or shellfish. You do not know how much beneficial bacteria you are growing, though.

The best source of ammonia is... Ammonia. In a bottle.

Using fish is a delicate balance of water changes to keep the toxins low (try not to hurt the fish) but keep feeding the bacteria. It can take 4 to 8 weeks to cycle a tank this way, and can cost the lives of several fish. When you are done you have grown a small bacteria population that still needs to be nurtured to increase its population. You cannot, at the end of a fish-in cycle, fully stock your tank.

The fishless/ammonia cycle takes as little as 3 weeks, and can be even faster, grows a BIG bacteria population, and does not harm fish in any way.

Both methods give you plenty of practice using your test kit.

How to cycle a tank the fishless way:

1) Make sure all equipment is working, fill with water that has all the stuff you will need for the fish you intend to keep. Dechlorinator, minerals for GH or KH adjustments, the proper salt mix, if you are creating a brackish or marine tank...

2) Add some source of the bacteria. Used filter media from a cycled tank is best, gravel or some decorations or a few plants... even some water, though this is the poorest source of the beneficial bacteria.
Bacteria in a bottle can be a source of these bacteria, but make sure you are getting Nitrospiros spp of bacteria. All other ‘bacteria in a bottle’ products have the wrong bacteria. (This step is optional. The proper bacteria will find the tank even if you make no effort to add them)

3) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This is the non-sudsing, no surfactants, no-fragrance-added ammonia that is often found in a hardware store, discount stores, and sometimes in a grocery store. The concentration of ammonia may not be the same in all bottles. Try adding 5 drops per 10 gallons, then allowing the filter to circulate for about an hour, then test. If the reading isn't up to 5 ppm, add a few more drops and test again. (Example, if your test reads only 2 ppm, then add another 5 drops) Some ammonia is such a weak dilution you may need to add several ounces to get a reading.

4) Test for ammonia daily, and add enough to keep the reading at 5 ppm.

5) Several days after you start, begin testing for nitrites. When the nitrites show up, reduce the amount of ammonia you add so the test shows 3ppm. (Add only half as much ammonia as you were adding in part 4) Add this reduced amount daily from now until the tank is cycled.

If the nitrites get too high (over 5 ppm), do a water change. It can happen that the bacteria growth is slowed because of the high nitrites. Reducing the level of ammonia to 3 ppm should prevent the nitrite from getting over 5 ppm.

6) Continue testing, and adding ammonia daily. The nitrates will likely show up about 2 weeks after you started. Keep monitoring, and watch for 0 ppm ammonia, 0 ppm nitrite and rising nitrates.

7) Once the 0 ppm ammonia and nitrites shows up it may bounce around a little bit for a day or two. Be patient. Keep adding the ammonia, keep testing ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
When it seems done you can challenge the system by adding more than a regular dose of ammonia, and the bacteria should be able to remove the ammonia and nitrite by the next day.
If you will not be adding fish right away continue to add the ammonia to keep the bacteria fed.

8) When you are ready to add the fish, do at least one water change, and it may take a couple of them, to reduce the nitrate to safe levels (as low as possible, certainly below 10 ppm) I have seen nitrate approaching 200 ppm by the end of this fishless cycle.

9) You can plant a tank that is being cycled this way at any point during the process. If you plant early, the plants will be well rooted, and better able to handle the disruption of the water change.
Yes, the plants will use some of the ammonia and the nitrates. They are part of the nitrogen handling system, part of the biofilter, they are working for you. Some plants do not like high ammonia, though. If a certain plant dies, remove it, and only replace it after the cycle is done.
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