CO2 Affected by Too Much Water Movement? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2010, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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CO2 Affected by Too Much Water Movement?

Hi,

I have a 20G long tank but I have a 530 Gal/hr rated canister filter and a 120 Gal/hr internal power head.

So the water churn rate is pretty high and co2, o2 exchange is also high.

Is this significantly bad for my CO2 level? I do have a CO2 reactor.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2010, 08:20 PM
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It is not water movement that a effects CO2 and oxygen levels, but surface agitation. If your tank from above, looks like the water by the bottem of a water fall, you have a problem.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2010, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeJ View Post
It is not water movement that a effects CO2 and oxygen levels, but surface agitation. If your tank from above, looks like the water by the bottem of a water fall, you have a problem.


Yeah that's wat I mean, the tank is 30" and I have a 25" spray bar returning water from the canister. The surface is definitely being agitated. I don't know if too much though.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2010, 09:10 PM
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I have a co2 reactor on a 48gal tank running off of a 2217 and it's all coming out of a half submerged lily pipe, and I have plenty of co2... This surface agitation myth is one that I was a believer of up until recently...
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2010, 10:37 PM
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The rate of diffusion is dependent on the surface area of the aquarium. Larger aquariums with larger surface areas will lose CO2 faster than smaller aquariums.

The more surface agitation you have, the more surface area you have, thus causing the diffusion rate of CO2 to also increase.

I would not call it a "myth".

As mentioned, gentle surface agitation (i.e. rippling) will likely not affect CO2 diffusion rates too much; however, if your surface of the water is a bubbling foam, it is another story.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2010, 11:21 PM
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Like Darkblade48, I too believe in the laws of physics.

The diffusion that takes place at the surface of the water in the aquarium is no myth and follows the laws of physics. The greater the area of the surface higher is the gaseous diffusion. This diffusion tends to equalise the proportion of the different gases on both sides of the surface.

As the aquarium is tiny as compared to the atmosphere above it; the diffusion tends to reduce you CO2 enrichment of the aquarium water. It is not magic but simple natural process and therefore has a finite rate of action which can be overcome by increase of the CO2 enrichment rate. Yes, you will be loosing more CO2 in that process than the other hobbyist with lower surface agitation, but you still can achieve the desired 30ppm for the CO2 hungry plants.

Yes, you might have to add more reactors but use a drop checker and up the CO2 enrichment and achieve the desired level of CO2.

If you have a choice, you have a problem, till you elect your choice. No choice, no problem, only consequences, learn to live with them.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2010, 11:31 PM
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god, you guys are too much....
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-01-2010, 11:46 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essabee View Post
Like Darkblade48, I too believe in the laws of physics.

The diffusion that takes place at the surface of the water in the aquarium is no myth and follows the laws of physics. The greater the area of the surface higher is the gaseous diffusion. This diffusion tends to equalise the proportion of the different gases on both sides of the surface.

As the aquarium is tiny as compared to the atmosphere above it; the diffusion tends to reduce you CO2 enrichment of the aquarium water. It is not magic but simple natural process and therefore has a finite rate of action which can be overcome by increase of the CO2 enrichment rate. Yes, you will be loosing more CO2 in that process than the other hobbyist with lower surface agitation, but you still can achieve the desired 30ppm for the CO2 hungry plants.

Yes, you might have to add more reactors but use a drop checker and up the CO2 enrichment and achieve the desired level of CO2.


Thanks, and what is the cheapest way to measure CO2?


I have a Co2 yeast reactor, but I think I'm going to supplement some Excel into it.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-02-2010, 12:02 AM
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The drop checker is the surest way of monitoring the CO2 enrichment.

Water flow on-line reactors are best for mixing CO2 with tank water but you need a good supply of CO2. You can use yeast to produce the CO2 but unless you are as big a crackpot as I, I don't think you will be able to produce the required quantity of CO2 needed by yeast method.



The picture is of the 40L X 3 yeast reactor containers which went into my incubator. I used this system to supply CO2 to 4 tanks having a joint volume of 3000L till I went pressurised a year ago.

Exel is not a gaseous source and will neither get diffused out by surface agitation or register its presence on the drop-checker but will supply carbon to your plants. I have never used it as it was not available here (in India).

If you have a choice, you have a problem, till you elect your choice. No choice, no problem, only consequences, learn to live with them.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-02-2010, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
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Great ! Thanks for the info.

That's some crazy system. That would a suspicious setup if it wasn't on a forum about fish tanks! lol.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-02-2010, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by essabee View Post
The picture is of the 40L X 3 yeast reactor containers which went into my incubator. I used this system to supply CO2 to 4 tanks having a joint volume of 3000L till I went pressurised a year ago.
Madness! What would happen if it were to explode!

Once you have switched to pressurized, I am sure you never looked back.

Anthony


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-02-2010, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkblade48 View Post
Madness! What would happen if it were to explode!

Once you have switched to pressurized, I am sure you never looked back.
What if I told you that system had an attachment which stored the CO2 produced at night and that like pressurised systems, the supply to the tanks were cut off along with the lights and the CO2 stored?

What if I told you that for more than 5 years that I used the system, filling one can every weekend - the only trouble it gave was a leak in the gas storage tank requiring me to change it.

Those cans were reinforced with those black nylon belts to avoid a weak blast .

I bet the fishes miss the alcohol laced CO2. Heady days those - sure miss them. Then after going pressurised; its so easy.

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-02-2010, 02:56 PM
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god, you guys are too much....
you may post alot, but you post lots of bad misinformed stuff. ive learned lately to view just about any post by you as a Troll post.


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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-03-2010, 10:01 PM
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That is one nutty diy co2 setup essa. Pretty much have a small brewery going on there... if only home distillation was legal you could offset your fish expenses with PT brand rum!
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 08-03-2010, 10:03 PM
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you may post alot, but you post lots of bad misinformed stuff. ive learned lately to view just about any post by you as a Troll post.
Please elaborate...
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