Need some help with plants - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-23-2010, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Need some help with plants

What would cause all plants to melt at the base? 3x times, I have bought plant packages, and every thing melts in 3 to 4 weeks at the bottom 2 to 3 in. the tops seem to do ok, not great. Have tried to trim the tops and replant them, its just the same thing all over. And I lose all red in plants they just go green. I cannot keep shrimp alive, all fish do fine. Mosses and java ferns do fine. Stems just melt.
20 Long tank
XP1 Filter, W/Spray bar
Stealth heater 100w 75/76
Soil Master Select + root tabs
Coralife 62W
2X31w 6700,10,000
On from 6pm. to 12am.
Whisper air pump
On from 1am. To 4am.
Pressurized co2
Airco regulator
On 2PM To 12AM
Clippard solenoid
Fabco NV-55 N/Valve
DIY bubble counter @ 3/BS
Using a Power head for diffuser
Red sea drop checker green/yellow

E/I Dosing
Monday – 50% water change 1/2 GH Booster
1/16 TSP KN03 1/16 TSP KH2P04 1/16 TSP K2S04
Tuesday – 1/16 CSM&B 3ml flourish iron
Wensday - 1/16 TSP KN03 1/16 TSP KH2P04 1/16 TSP K2S04
Thursday – 1/16 CSM&B 3ml flourish iron
Friday - 1/16 TSP KN03 1/16 TSP KH2P04 1/16 TSP K2S04
Saterday – 1/16 CSM&B 3ml flourish iron
Sunday – Day off
API test kit, all readings are good.
KH – 3
GH - 6

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 01:44 AM
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Hi MSC, qute puppy. Is it yours? My brother had a Dalmatian for almost 16 years. An amazing dog. Someone else might see something I miss, but I hope this helps.

Maybe it's because of the Soil Master Select or a host of other reasons, but you are dosing less KNO3 then the 1/4 tsp recommended by EI. Have you tried dosing 1/8 or a 1/4 tsp KNO3? Your nitrates should never drop lower then 5-10ppm, IMO. The lights (especially if T5HO) are driving your plants to suck in nutrients and with the CO2 levels you have, you probably need to increase your KNO3 dose.

CO2, see if you can get the same results by adding CO2 only one or two hours before lights on and off the CO2 one hour before lights out.

What type of shrimp can't you keep alive? How new is this setup/substrate?


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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Hi Tug thank you for the reply. Yes that is Bean one of our dogs, we have 10.
5 Dalmatians, 4 Australian Shepard’s and a mix. Think you my be right about the KNO3. When I test, my readings were reading High. So I was dosing less thinking the fish was making the KNO3 run high. But the more I think about things, I never did calibrate the kit. Today I did up the KNO3 ¼ hope that I can save the plants.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 02:19 AM
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first of all, 6hrs seems a little bit light on the lighting.

i have to ask, is your drop checker solution 4dkh?

i dont think that your light is bright enough to keep your reds in your plants. i have the same water, the same light in a 20 long. i get bright reds in my 55g but when i cut the plants in put them in my 20 they go green again.


if your co2 is up to par, try floating your stem plants in your tank for a week and then planting.

i think the only difference in our 20g tanks is the filter and the substrate.

i have plenty of stems so just let me know and you can give them a try
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 02:20 AM
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what stems are melting?
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 02:36 AM Thread Starter
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I was running the lights for 8hours and was getting algae so I cut back. Thinking 6 hours was as short as I would go. The drop checker is 4dkh. Every stem I ever put in the tank has done this. All the stems you have given me, and this is the last package I got.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sw...kage-sold.html
So I am thinking Tug hit this right with the KNO3.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 02:55 AM
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i dont think that your nitrates are that low and are causing stem melt, but thats just my opinion.

i had given you p stellatus before because i couldnt keep it in my tank because it was melting, but thats when i lived at the other place and had different water.

you've seen how intense the lights are on my 55, i have to dose double of everything to keep things in check. maybe instead of dosing for a 20-40g, a 40-60g regime will help and then slowly back down.

have you tried doing the test where you put some tank water in cup and let it sit for 24 hours? i really think co2 might be your issue
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 03:18 AM Thread Starter
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I do not think it is the co2, but I don’t know. How do I do this co2 test? Do I take a cup of water out when the co2 shuts off then let it sit for 24 hours?
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 03:24 AM
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Re: Need some help with plants

When the bottoms of stems get bare it is usually from lack of light.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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I don’t think it is a lack of light. It’s a 20 long with 62W T5HO.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 03:31 AM
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basicly you test the ph of a cup of your tank water. let it sit for 24 hours if the ph raises 1 full point, for instance if it goes from 6.7 to 7.7, it is said that your co2 was 30 ppm

i think thats how it works
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by over_stocked View Post
When the bottoms of stems get bare it is usually from lack of light.

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i've read that before but i never understood why the stem that is under the substrate or even the stem up above the substrate would need light. the stem doesnt photosynthesize does it?
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-24-2010, 11:45 AM
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Another option would be to raise the light some and/or remove one of the lights before going back to an 8 hour photo-period. I think you would be surprised how much light 1.5wpg of T5HO really is. In a month or so I hope I'll be borrowing a PAR meter to check out the T5HO light over me 20T. I have 1.2wpg and some say that I have med-high light. We'll see.

Tim has a good point as well. Likely most issues revolve around CO2, including red coloration. Carbon is the main part of the red coloration pigments. I would look at the water flow through the tank to make sure it is moving nutrients into the area were you've seen problems. The plants themselves tend to redirect the flow. IMO, the reason plants drop their lower leaves has everything to do with nutrient/CO2 deficiencies and poor water circulation through the plants in question.

Who knows, maybe you do have high nitrates in your tap water and your test was correct. Are you running tap from a well or can you get a water quality report to look at? No need to add more nitrate if you get levels of 20-30ppm from the tap.
But, unless you have a heck of a lot of plants, perfect CO2 and lighting, the 20-40gallon EI dose should be more then enough to give you non-limiting nutrients. Even 1/2 the recommended doses are often non-limiting for a lot of people with a nice substrate and/or newer, fewer plants. The EI recommendation may not be the answer to your problem. But, by adding the full EI dose recommended, people can focus on lighting, CO2 levels, water circulation, etc., without worrying about nutrient deficiency issues.


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Last edited by tug; 12-10-2014 at 11:17 PM. Reason: semantics
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