Issues with fresh 65G - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Issues with fresh 65G

I've run into a snag in my freshly planted 65tall. Running Finnex Planted + 36", Eco complete substrate underneath sand, DIY C02 reactor up and purring, dosing flourish Bi-weekly, filtered through a Fluval70. First batch of plants went in last week(crypts, baccopa, amazon swords, java fern) and they are all doing exceedingly well. Second batch, i had some other various plants flown in with the plant i really wanted from the get go of Itallian Vals. My issue is the val is readily dying on the back row of my aquarium, where everything else in the tank is doing well, including my dwarf baby tears which from what i understand is a more sensitive plant compared to what ive been told the vals should be rather robust. What gives? I am still dealing with some black water from my drift wood, but i dont know if its enough to be killing the val. No fish have been put in yet, because i wanted to get the plants up and rolling before i stocked it, because i care as much, if not more, about the plants than i do the fish! Any suggestions would be very handy!
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DTJB821 View Post
I've run into a snag in my freshly planted 65tall. Running Finnex Planted + 36", Eco complete substrate underneath sand, DIY C02 reactor up and purring, dosing flourish Bi-weekly, filtered through a Fluval70. First batch of plants went in last week(crypts, baccopa, amazon swords, java fern) and they are all doing exceedingly well. Second batch, i had some other various plants flown in with the plant i really wanted from the get go of Itallian Vals. My issue is the val is readily dying on the back row of my aquarium, where everything else in the tank is doing well, including my dwarf baby tears which from what i understand is a more sensitive plant compared to what ive been told the vals should be rather robust. What gives? I am still dealing with some black water from my drift wood, but i dont know if its enough to be killing the val. No fish have been put in yet, because i wanted to get the plants up and rolling before i stocked it, because i care as much, if not more, about the plants than i do the fish! Any suggestions would be very handy!
I may have missed it but how long has the val been in the tank?

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry, i didnt specify. The val and the DBG has been in for 5 or 6 days now. The dwarf is still as green as can be. Sorry, new planted tanks!
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 05:55 PM
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I'm not seeing where you are dosing any Macros at all. The plants need food, namely Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. These are not in your Flourish Comprehensive or Flourish Trace.

Edit: I forgot to add that this may effect the Val first, as Vallisneria is a pretty fast growing plant and requires heavy nutrients.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:03 PM
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It's pretty common for Vals to have an initial die off (melting) when first added to a tank. Also liquid carbon additives, like Flourish Excel can do that but if you start low and gradually increase to full dose, most Vals will get used to it. I wouldn't worry too much, they'll bounce back
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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That's the issue then, and makes sense. Like i said, im new to all of this, and thought i had hit all the bases with the flourish, but apparently not. With fish in the tank, do you still need to dose nitrogen? Also, im sure some googling will yield this question, but is there a combo potassium/ phosphorus/ all in one dose, or all of them individual? Thank you so much for the help
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:19 PM
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I was going to say initial die off as well.

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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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With initial die off, do you expect the whole plant to brown, lose its leafs, then regrow from roots? To what extent should one expect it to melt?
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:34 PM
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What I see in your pic looks pretty standard, may get a little worse but not by much. Then they grow like crazy. I've had jungle Val in tanks with inert substrate and no ferts and still grew like mad. I would pull out about a gallon size zip lock bag worth every 6-9 months or so. Albeit my setups were low tech and low/ medium light. Having CO2 and bright lights increases your need for ferts, but this case looks like initial melt to me.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. While ive got some views here, my last question to yall would be regarding my blackwater. I know activated carbon will help pull it out and clear it up, but ive also read it sucks nutrients as well as C02 out of the water. What would your course of action be here with the large pieces of wood ive got. It was boiled and soaked, but still leaching tannins.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTJB821 View Post
With initial die off, do you expect the whole plant to brown, lose its leafs, then regrow from roots? To what extent should one expect it to melt?
Depends on the plant. I actually just inherited a ton of little vals from my friend and am seeing a good amount of die-off. maybe 20% of each plant is dying off. Crypts are also notorious for dying off when moved or disturbed. give them a few weeks and they will stop dying and you will only see new growth.

From what I have seen up to 50% of the plant might die off. usually entire leaves will just become transparent and die. eventually the dead leaves will be gone and you will see new growth.

same thing usually happens when introducing emersed plants to your aquarium. the emersed growth will usually just die off (cannot survive underwater) and new growth will be in 'submerged' form and grow just fine. again, whether this happens / how bad it is depends on the plant. I have had emersed plants where the emersed growth never died, and others where emersed growth was all dead within a few days and then it basically started growing again from nothing.


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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTJB821 View Post
Thanks for the info. While ive got some views here, my last question to yall would be regarding my blackwater. I know activated carbon will help pull it out and clear it up, but ive also read it sucks nutrients as well as C02 out of the water. What would your course of action be here with the large pieces of wood ive got. It was boiled and soaked, but still leaching tannins.


Take it out and boil it some more!!! Several times a day, for a few weeks!! Letting it soak in water in between boils!! That's what it took with my wood anyway. It might take a long time to clear up on its own. I personally wouldn't use carbon. The tannins are also harmless in most situations, so it depends on what you want and how "dark" it really is. If you really just don't like the colored water, get boiling! Just my opinion .

you could be right about dosing nitrogen, once you add fish, and after the tank matures a bit, you might not need to dose it...depends on a lot of factors though. I don't need to dose it in any of my tanks, but I do need to dose K, and I'd assume that you would too. A new tank though, it may be a good idea to dose N,P,K's especially if it will be a while before you add fish. I've never done so but I've also lost a few plants in the acclimation stage.


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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 07:41 PM
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Purigen will clear the tannins and leave the nutrients and can be regenerated.
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