Faster way to cycle 2.7 tank from established tank? - The Planted Tank Forum
 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Ryan Mosby's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 406
Faster way to cycle 2.7 tank from established tank?

For a while now I've had a Fluval Spec V 5 gallon tank. After it was cycled, I added about 10 red cherry shrimp. I've been watching the parameters as of late, trying to make sure the water is good for them. Though I started out with nearly 10, I was then down to 5 (too high of calcium had created some molting issues but I got water softener).

Well, stupidly I also wanted to get a betta and figured maybe this betta might not be too aggressive, and if he was, I could take him back to the store. He doesn't really attack them but he does like sticking his nose in every hiding place, which is obviously stressing them since they've taken up to hiding. Except I don't want to take him back to the store, I've grown attached to him.

After not seeing my rcs for a while, I began to lift up driftwood to check up on them. I didn't have time to fully check since it was before work this morning, but I found one whole dead male (he was fully intact, not molted, would have looked alive except he just wasn't moving) and one berried female. It was my mistake, first of all, getting the betta with only a few shrimp (and some of them berried) before they were established, and not realizing the shrimp were just going to hide the whole time. I really like these shrimp, and watching them, so having them in hiding and stressed isn't my thing.

I decided on my way home from work, I'll pick up a Fluval Spec 3 for the betta. I want to know, is there a really fast way to cycle a 2.7 gallon tank, perhaps using water from my Spec V? The reason I ask is not only for the health of my shrimp, but that tomorrow I'm receiving more that I had ordered a month ago. I'd like to keep the shrimp in the 5 gallon and move the betta to the 2.7. Any advice?
Ryan Mosby is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 07:15 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
JJ09's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 2,686
Not with water, but with plants, hardscape or a handful of substrate that has the 'good' bacteria in it. Even better, move over some filter media from your established tank.
Cally95, Cally95, Leeatl and 1 others like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JJ09 is offline  
post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Ryan Mosby's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 406
That sounds like a plan; so I put new filter media in my old tank, and the old tank's filter media in the new one? I was going to move over some plants as well. I'll add in some substrate. I read that I should fill the tank with tap water and then wait 30 minutes to put the dechlorinator in, and then add ammonia. Would the filter media count as that?
Ryan Mosby is offline  
 
post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 07:55 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
JJ09's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 2,686
Yes, I think so. Squeeze the old filter media out over the new one, or squeeze your old media in a bucket of tank water and rinse the new media in that to seed it. The put the new media in the existing tank, and the old media in the new tank.

Keep an eye on the params for a few days, though- you still might not get an 'instant cycle' and your existing tank could get a bit of ammonia spike as it rebuilds the bacteria colony.

Alternately, you could just squeeze the filter from the existing tank over new one in the new tank, or cut a piece off and transfer that to seed the new tank... it will definitely shorter the length of time the tank takes to cycle.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
JJ09 is offline  
post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 08:17 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zoidburg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,901
If possible, set a new filter up in an existing tank for at least a couple of weeks, then move that to the new tank.


Most of the beneficial bacteria is on the surface of things, not in the water. Take snow for an example. It settles on the ground, in the trees, on roof tops. Trying to remove snow from the air you would only get minimal amounts... but if you moved a plant, or a bunch of gravel covered in snow, it would be easy to move it.


What is the GH and KH of your water? And tanks?
Zoidburg is online now  
post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Ryan Mosby's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 406
Normally I wouldn't want to be impatient with cycling but I want to separate my rcs and the betta as soon as possible without hurting either of them. I paid for different colored rcs that after waiting a month, are arriving tomorrow, and I don't want to risk them getting eaten. Is there a solution for holding them somehow while waiting for the other tank to cycle? I don't believe my lfs sells dividers for 5 gallons.
Ryan Mosby is offline  
post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 09:20 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
AbbeysDad's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Central New York, USA
Posts: 1,339
Even better than 'bacteria in a bottle', "Instant cycle" is commonly done commercially and in fish rooms. Take the sponge or floss media from the filter of an established tank and 'clean' it in the new tank water with the filter running. The beneficial bacteria from the established filter will populate the new tank and filter. Then you can slowly populate the new tank with no waiting.

Tank On, Mike-
60g Marineland Community, Finnex Planted+ 24/7, Silica (pool filter) sand.
10g, 29g, & 37g fry grow out tanks, 110g stock tank.


What came first, the chicken or the egg. It was the egg, but not the egg from a chicken.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AbbeysDad is offline  
post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 09:27 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zoidburg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,901
Worst case scenario, the shrimp can remain in a tank or bucket with no filtration. Add an air stone for extra oxygen and keep an eye on the parameters.

Do this while you are getting the second tank up and running.
Zoidburg is online now  
post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 05:14 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Ryan Mosby's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 406
Exclamation

So I'm hearing these options:

a.) Swap filters (for how long, this switch?) and suffer an ammonia spike in the old tank
b.) Wash out the old filter in the new tank (either in the tank's water or over the new filter)
c.) Cut off a piece of the old filter (how big of a piece?) and put it in the new tank.

Which of these would be the most efficient and fastest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
What is the GH and KH of your water? And tanks?
Right now the parameters of my established tank are a little out of whack. It's a Fluval Spec V 5-gallon, medium planted, with 10 cherry shrimp and a betta.

PH: between 7.2 and 7.8 ppm
KH: 4.47 dKH (too high)
GH: 4.2 dGH
Nitrate: 80 ppm (too high)
Ammonia/Nitrite: about .5 to 1 ppm (little high)
TDS: 335 ppm (too high)
Chlorine: 0
Ryan Mosby is offline  
post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 06:55 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zoidburg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,901
For Neos, the KH is fine. The GH on the other hand is a little on the low end. I'd recommend to bump it up to 5 or 6.


Definitely need to get those nitrates, ammonia and nitrites down though... hopefully it wasn't thrown into a mini cycle?
Zoidburg is online now  
post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 07:32 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Ryan Mosby's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 406
I'm wondering if replacing my carbon filter did it. Can I bump up the GH with mineral rocks? And decrease ammonia with an ammonia toxifier? How come my Nite-Out II wasn't bringing nitrites and ammonia down with the water changes? I could just forego both the Stress Coat and the Nite-Out II and get Amquel.
Ryan Mosby is offline  
post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 08:02 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: California
Posts: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
Worst case scenario, the shrimp can remain in a tank or bucket with no filtration. Add an air stone for extra oxygen and keep an eye on the parameters.



Do this while you are getting the second tank up and running.


I've done this before for a few weeks. Had a plant floating for the shrimp and checked ammonia often. They were all fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
guvmarley is offline  
post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Ryan Mosby's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 406
I'm probably doing everything wrong. I filled the new 2.5 gallon tank with water, waited 30 min, put in some dechlorinator, then put in the dead body of the cherry shrimp earlier today and some mini-pellets. I just rinsed my established's tank inner sponge filter in the new tank's water until the water got really cloudy. I took the nasty old biomax bio rings from my old filter and put it in the new filter, in the bottom compartment. Then I transferred a few handfuls of gravel, some plants, a moss ball from the old tank to the new one. Am I on the right track? I'll check the ammonia levels tomorrow when I find my master test kit.

Last edited by Ryan Mosby; 01-22-2017 at 09:33 AM. Reason: Rewrote post
Ryan Mosby is offline  
post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 09:50 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Zoidburg's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Mosby View Post
I'm wondering if replacing my carbon filter did it. Can I bump up the GH with mineral rocks? And decrease ammonia with an ammonia toxifier? How come my Nite-Out II wasn't bringing nitrites and ammonia down with the water changes? I could just forego both the Stress Coat and the Nite-Out II and get Amquel.

It's possible that removing the carbon filter could have caused a change in the tanks parameters. Most people that I am aware of don't use carbon with shrimp.

I don't recommend mineral rocks... If you mean the mineral balls, they degrade very slowly and don't really add much benefit to the tank. If you mean mineral rocks that do degrade, these often degrade quickly and can shoot your GH, KH and TDS out the wazoo! Rocks like seiryu stones. You are better off using a GH remineralizer. You don't need one with KH, only GH.


Quick search on Nite-Out II, I see some people who love it, others who prefer Safe-Start.



No experience with Amquel either, but I'd recommend doing water changes over trying to treat a tank with ammonia, nitrites and nitrates... having plants that could eat up the excess nutrients could also help... duckweed, frogbit, red root floaters, salvinia natans.... (would kind of need to "overload" the tank with plants)

My thoughts here is that shrimp can be sensitive to water conditioners and it can result in stress. Accidentally OD'd on Seachem Prime (basically same as Amquel, little different than Stress Coat - I think?) with a water change (it went into the fresh water prior to going into the tank) and it caused the shrimp to swim about the tank and even a few tried climbing out of the water.

If you want to use the conditioner straight in the tank, then care needs to be used as too much will cause stress. So, rather than adding even more stuff to the tank that could result in stress, why not just do frequent but small water changes to get the current levels down? You want to do them at least every 3 days, if not a little more frequent, until things get stabilized.



If you can isolate the betta in the current tank, definitely try that! Shrimp though can sometimes find their way into places they shouldn't be.... such as breeding boxes, canister filters, HOB's... Case in point, I pulled 4 shrimp out of the HOB on my 20 gallon tank. I'm surprised I didn't kill them since the HOB was turned off and drained of water (massive water change caused the water in the HOB to drain out... tank is doomed...). I started a drip acclimation back into the tank, then remembered I saw a shrimp in the HOB, and it would probably be a good idea to drip the water back into the HOB to keep the bacteria alive. In case the shrimp was still alive, despite the HOB being drained of nearly all the water, I moved the drip to the HOB. Three days later, tank still isn't filled back up and I check the HOB and see 3 shrimp just sitting at the edge right where the water flows back into the tank! I look inside and there's 4 shrimp! I'm honestly not convinced that there isn't a 5th or 6th shrimp hiding in there somewhere!



As far as your choices... I would go with "B". Take the filter and give it a good squeeze or two into the new tank or into the new filter media, then place it back into your first tank.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Mosby View Post
I'm probably doing everything wrong. I filled the new 2.5 gallon tank with water, waited 30 min, put in some dechlorinator, then put in the dead body of the cherry shrimp earlier today and some mini-pellets. I just rinsed my established's tank inner sponge filter in the new tank's water until the water got really cloudy. I took the nasty old biomax bio rings from my old filter and put it in the new filter, in the bottom compartment. Then I transferred a few handfuls of gravel, some plants, a moss ball from the old tank to the new one. Am I on the right track? I'll check the ammonia levels tomorrow when I find my master test kit.

I would have put the dechlorinator in the water prior to adding it to the tank...


I would have also tossed the dead body...



I'd say everything else is good though.
Zoidburg is online now  
post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 10:53 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Ryan Mosby's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
If you want to use the conditioner straight in the tank, then care needs to be used as too much will cause stress. So, rather than adding even more stuff to the tank that could result in stress, why not just do frequent but small water changes to get the current levels down? You want to do them at least every 3 days, if not a little more frequent, until things get stabilized.
Alright then, small water changes every three days, with just a little bit of Stress Coat and the remineralizer in the established tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
If you can isolate the betta in the current tank, definitely try that! Shrimp though can sometimes find their way into places they shouldn't be.... such as breeding boxes, canister filters, HOB's.
Done! Luckily none have gone in through the slits (one was on them but didn't go in), but it's all clear so they can see the betta is inside. Ever since the betta has gone in the isolation box, my previously hidden shrimp have come back out, wewt! It's driving my betta nuts. He hasn't tried to attack any before but he likes to creep up on them and make them jump/flee, so when they clean the roots of the frobit near him, he gets antsy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
.. Case in point, I pulled 4 shrimp out of the HOB on my 20 gallon tank. I'm surprised I didn't kill them since the HOB was turned off and drained of water (massive water change caused the water in the HOB to drain out... tank is doomed...). I started a drip acclimation back into the tank, then remembered I saw a shrimp in the HOB, and it would probably be a good idea to drip the water back into the HOB to keep the bacteria alive. In case the shrimp was still alive, despite the HOB being drained of nearly all the water, I moved the drip to the HOB. Three days later, tank still isn't filled back up and I check the HOB and see 3 shrimp just sitting at the edge right where the water flows back into the tank! I look inside and there's 4 shrimp! I'm honestly not convinced that there isn't a 5th or 6th shrimp hiding in there somewhere!
Luckily I haven't had much of this problem with the Fluval Spec V. The first time I got cherry shrimp, a few of them checked out the inside/top of the filter, went 'meh' and never went back in. I pull the filter up now just enough that they can't go inside. Though the other day after I got my new additional shrimp in, the filter was heavy enough that it went back down, and I found a yellow diamond back sucked into the lower filter bypass. About had a heartattack about that. I had to gently pull him out with tweezers because the rest of him was too big to go all the way through. Luckily he wasn't dead, he swam right off after. Now I keep a pen in place under the handle of the filter to keep it raised just enough to block off the slits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
As far as your choices... I would go with "B". Take the filter and give it a good squeeze or two into the new tank or into the new filter media, then place it back into your first tank.
I got nervous and went ahead and did that, although I gave it more than just a squeeze. I tried washing it off in the water, I squeezed it a LOT... Hopefully I haven't just messed with my established tank's parameters even more when I put it back in.

Also, was it alright putting the biomax from the old filter into the new one? I figured it's already done it's job with the old tank, and it's gross enough to maybe help the new one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoidburg View Post
I would have also tossed the dead body...
I figured his death wouldn't be for nothing! That and I have nowhere to buy pure ammonia from in my tiny town. Should I take him out and just stick with fish food? I have mini pellets right now but tomorrow I'm going to buy fish flakes.

Also, you said that people don't typically use carbon with shrimp; what's the preferred alternative?

Last edited by Ryan Mosby; 01-22-2017 at 11:01 AM. Reason: forgot to add something!
Ryan Mosby is offline  
Reply

Tags
betta, cycling faster, established tank, new tank, rcs

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome