Self cleaning tank possible? Look at this video. - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 02:56 AM Thread Starter
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Self cleaning tank possible? Look at this video.

Look at this video, self cleaning tank is possible.

https://youtu.be/iLDT8aCnTJo

Why would this not work for a larger tank? Possible connected to a water pump or something?

You could have some outlet that you connect to a 1/2" tubing and run the other end out the window, to the sink, toilet,etc.. and just pump out the most dirty of the water.

Think is a large goldfish aquarium or cichilds or even at the LFS with a entire system like this.

I can't believe in the age of self driving cars that the gravel siphon is the only way to clean a tank.

What do you think?
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 07:38 AM
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With fine sand and good filtration there is no waste lying around in the tank. Just clean the filter once in a while, you have to do it anyway. Simple water change can be done easily, just buy a pump.
As with any undergravel filter (thing from the video works mostly the same way) you need coarse substrate, you can't have sand or soil.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 10:23 PM Thread Starter
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With fine sand and good filtration there is no waste lying around in the tank. Just clean the filter once in a while, you have to do it anyway. Simple water change can be done easily, just buy a pump.
As with any undergravel filter (thing from the video works mostly the same way) you need coarse substrate, you can't have sand or soil.
Do most people use sand or some kind of gravel/rocks? Every tank I have ever had used either Eco-complete or some kind of river pebbles.

Sand does not provide any nutriments to plants right ?

I watch people at Petco and petsmart using a gravel siphon. Seems like a system which connected to a 1 HP water pump and pulls water from under the gravel could empty bad water in a matter of minutes vs hours of manual labor.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 05:47 AM
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I have a heavily planted 60g with a silica (pool filter) sand substrate. I haven't used a gravel vac in 8+ years. There is never any detritus on the substrate and the water is crystal clear.
It's magic I tell you, magic!
Malaysian Trumpet Snails work the sand and I have filters, plants, and do modest partial weekly water changes of 15-20g.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 06:01 AM
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Exactly, it's magic! MTS help too, I have some. My tank is 10 years old and so is the sand, it's not crystal white any more, but it's definitely absolutely clean.
About nutritiens - I'm using some cheap DIY clay-peat balls with dry ferts (it's something like JBL root balls). I have a small tank with a soil (HELP advanced soil plants) and I like sand more, it's easier to plant, it's never messy, of course soil gives you some ease with fertilising, but I'm not sure any more if it's worth it. This "self cleaning" of sand is a big advantage too (right circulation is what you need!).


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 06:30 PM
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It's a nice design, but does not look necessary for people who keep planted tanks. Of course, it's downright impossible for those of us who use dirt.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
I have a heavily planted 60g with a silica (pool filter) sand substrate. I haven't used a gravel vac in 8+ years. There is never any detritus on the substrate and the water is crystal clear.
It's magic I tell you, magic!
Malaysian Trumpet Snails work the sand and I have filters, plants, and do modest partial weekly water changes of 15-20g.
You have white sand and its clean? Do you have a powerhead blowing a strong current over the sand or something along with very powerful filters? Do you have an understocked tank?

Thanks.

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It's a nice design, but does not look necessary for people who keep planted tanks. Of course, it's downright impossible for those of us who use dirt.
What about a LFS with 100 gravel aquarium they need to keep clean or that Vegas hotel with a aquarium with like 100 goldfish in it( which I have seen by the way, keeping up with the GOLD theme) ? What about breeders with a small warehouse or basement full of aquariums?

What about someone with a Oscar tank, Cichild tank or monster tank with a big waste producing fish ? Even planted tank without overgrown and rapid C02 plant growth may need this as well especially if they have Eco-complete not using dirt or sand which I think is the majority.

I know the need exist but I'm talking about engineering wise, why would this not work on a bigger setup particularly if a water pump was involved?

Thanks.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 01-19-2017 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 01:07 AM
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What about a LFS with 100 gravel aquarium they need to keep clean or that Vegas hotel with a aquarium with like 100 goldfish in it( which I have seen by the way, keeping up with the GOLD theme) ? What about breeders with a small warehouse or basement full of aquariums?
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Originally Posted by Bananableps View Post
It's a nice design, but does not look necessary for people who keep planted tanks. Of course, it's downright impossible for those of us who use dirt.
Seeing as this is a Planted Tank forum and all..


As for why non-planted tanks don't use this, the answer (as someone has already pointed out) is that some do. Reverse-flow undergravel filters exist. As I understand it, people used them for awhile, then stopped. It was a sort of fad. Not sure what the problem was.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananableps View Post
Seeing as this is a Planted Tank forum and all..


As for why non-planted tanks don't use this, the answer (as someone has already pointed out) is that some do. Reverse-flow undergravel filters exist. As I understand it, people used them for awhile, then stopped. It was a sort of fad. Not sure what the problem was.
Undergravel filters normally use airstones to pull water up from the tubes, forcing the waste down the gravel, reverse undergravel filters push water down the tubes and results in water that travels from under the gravel up perhaps to keep the gravel cleaner as well as biological filtration.

I'm talking about a water changing system, not an undergravel filter( which is primary a biological filtration using gravel as the media)

You are saying that a reverse undergravel filter is the same thing as what you saw in this video? Please explain.

Also, do you know from an engineering perspective why it would not work rather then from a marketing perspective?

Do you mean something like this?


Last edited by Overwatch; 01-19-2017 at 02:55 AM. Reason: s
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 04:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overwatch View Post
Undergravel filters normally use airstones to pull water up from the tubes, forcing the waste down the gravel, reverse undergravel filters push water down the tubes and results in water that travels from under the gravel up perhaps to keep the gravel cleaner as well as biological filtration.

I'm talking about a water changing system, not an undergravel filter( which is primary a biological filtration using gravel as the media)

You are saying that a reverse undergravel filter is the same thing as what you saw in this video? Please explain.

Also, do you know from an engineering perspective why it would not work rather then from a marketing perspective?

Do you mean something like this?

I guess the point of my original post was that this is not something that would make sense for people with planted tanks, and is therefor something that probably doesn't interest most people here.

I understand what you're saying about under gravel filters. What I'm talking about is different. For awhile, I believe some people were using the plumbing from under gravel filters as an intake for their filtration system. I realize this is not exactly like what you are talking about, because it's a filter intake rather than a water change methodology, but it is very similar. The goal in both techniques is to use tubing under the substrate to remove solid waste from the tank (in your video, via water change; in what I'm talking about, via sponge/floss filter media).

I don't know why people stopped doing this. Again, it's not a planted tank thing, so you might not get an answer in this forum.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 05:09 AM
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You have white sand and its clean? Do you have a powerhead blowing a strong current over the sand or something along with very powerful filters? Do you have an understocked tank?
Thanks.
It's pool filter sand which is sandy (tan) color. I have two Aquaclear HOB filters with AC50 impellers for reduced flow so there is no strong currents at the substrate. I use coarse and fine bio-sponge material exclusively for filter media.

My tank has turned into a grow out tank with Balloon Mollies and various mixed Swordtails - prolly about 60 juvenile fish that I feed approximately 6 times a day! Hardly understocked!

I feed high quality Omega One foods made with fresh fish (instead of fishmeal and grain binder/fillers) so there is reduced fish waste.

I have a couple of Pepper Cory's and a plethora of Malaysian Trumpet Snails that 'police' the substrate.
Again, I never see any detritus on the substrate.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 07:00 AM Thread Starter
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Maybe this might work if you had a powerful water pump ?????????

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 07:47 AM
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Would work better in reverse flow with external filter to clean the water that is being pushed up through the gravel.
Video I watched only showed substrate area around drain from tank possibly being cleaned as water passes over it and out the drain.
What about a large long tank/ ?What would clean the substrate for you on the other end?
Is why the above pictured design with slit's in grid work, or perforated holes ,would work well at preventing the need for vaccuming in reverse flow operation.
Would not work with soil's and sand's and not sure of the harm/benefit in tank planted with stem plant's or carpet plant's.
Reverse flow would need external filter in my opinion to further grab particulates that are being suspended in water column as opposed to being drawn down into the substrate.
Mostly a benefit combined with water changes to keep cleaner water/substrate for fishes.
Configured as it is in photo above ,the system would eventually result in the slit's(If that's what they are) allowing very fine material to be also drawn into the tubing and bacterial biofilm build up just like filter hoses,intake tubes so rather thanoperation as pictured,I would want reverse flow operation.
It does work well but as you mention,it takes powerful powerhead (s)
When I used the reverse flow undergravel filtration, I employed two Aquaclear 70 Powerhead's (old 802's) that are capable of reverse flow but lose some gph in reverse flow compared to 400 gph in circulation mode.

Last edited by roadmaster; 01-19-2017 at 08:01 AM. Reason: addition
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 05:03 PM
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Fluval spec modders do RFUGF.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/22...ml#post3507265

Kinda excessive as a bio filter, the spec's filter is more than enough for it's volume. But it is great for dispersing the flow for bettas.

I think in combination with a high CEC substrate and jets pointing down it works fine for planted tanks.

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 04:29 AM
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The videos of the No clean are kinda fake, like they put a bit of potting soil at the bottom and then gravel on top of it so the gravel breaks the harsh flow and the soil comes out. Detritus will work it's way down but not quite as neatly as the video implies.

This is a gallon based on the same principle.
National Geogrpahic? 1 Gallon Easy Clean Aquarium | fish Aquariums | PetSmart

The reviews complain a lot about when you actually add water to it, the water just stirs up all the debris and detritus and none of it gets actually removed by the 'easy clean' feature.

I can imagine a pretty neat way to make this for a larger aquarium using regular UGF, that runs as a ugf, but also has the lift tube extend all the way into a bulkhead for removal of water and a cover to block the regular UGF outflow into the tank when you need it to fill up and outflow through the bulkhead.

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