Which of these fish most likely killed my ADULT red cherry shrimps? - The Planted Tank Forum
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 07:48 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Which of these fish most likely killed my ADULT red cherry shrimps?

I realize some people say that any fish is bad with red cherry shrimp however I have kept many fish without a problem( neon tetra, otto cash fish,Priscilla tetra, cory catfish, glowlight tetra, harlequin rasboras, whitecloud mountain minnows, Platys, etc..)

However I recently got some new tank mates and the red cherry shrimp bodies are starting to pile up. I would like to know which one of the new fish are the most likely to committed the murder.

New additions:

1. Black Neon Tetra
2. Fancy Guppy
3. Dojo Loach/ Weather loach
4. Butterfly Loach
5. Baby/small Denison barb.
6. Sepra Tetras

Thanks.

Last edited by Overwatch; 12-26-2016 at 06:51 PM. Reason: spelling
Overwatch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 02:32 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
longgonedaddy's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
Posts: 1,259
How many fish did you add at one time? How big is the tank?

I don't believe that it is the fish directly. My experience is that fish eat, not kill, shrimp. Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, among other pollutants, kill shrimp. Do you have adequate biofiltration? How did you introduce the new fish, to allow the nitrifying bacteria to stay on top of the added bioload?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
longgonedaddy is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by longgonedaddy View Post
How many fish did you add at one time? How big is the tank?

I don't believe that it is the fish directly. My experience is that fish eat, not kill, shrimp. Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, among other pollutants, kill shrimp. Do you have adequate biofiltration? How did you introduce the new fish, to allow the nitrifying bacteria to stay on top of the added bioload?
I added the new fish maybe 50% one day and maybe 25% over 2 more times.

The tank is 55 gallon, I have a SunSun304 I think with 264 GPH flowrate and an airstone in the middle. Tank has been established over 1 year. However the flowrate is much less due to the fact snails keep getting clogged in the filter.

The UV sterilizer in that filter has a small little ring were the water passes and it gets clogged with snails so the water does not flow very fast.

I do have a seachem Ammonia alert which seem to say the water is good as far as Ammonia is anyway.

Some of the shrimp were cut in half which is why I suspected a murder but maybe as you say they were eating when they died of something else.

Thanks.
Overwatch is offline  
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 09:01 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Turningdizzy's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NE Texas
Posts: 493
I vote for the serpae tetras. They are quite nippy. Really though, I am with longgonedaddy as above, the fish tend to eat the shrimp, even if they murder them first. Maybe an ammonia spike from the new stock? Also, just a thought, did you buy fish that might have been treated for ich at the pet store, and introduce the pet store water to your tank? Are you by any chance treating your tank for ich with a copper based med? Spray any bug spray in the room with the tank lately? They could all be kicking off from heart failure with all those predators swimming around with them.<<JOKE-maybe
BettaBettas and BettaBettas like this.
Turningdizzy is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 09:52 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Axelrodi202's Avatar
 
PTrader: (37/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Morris County, NJ
Posts: 3,328
Even smaller tetras like cardinals will gang up on adult dwarf shrimp if hungry enough.

O_o
/ /_______________________________
| BWAAAH IMA FIRIHN MA LAZER!!!!!!!!!
\_\
Axelrodi202 is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turningdizzy View Post
I vote for the serpae tetras. They are quite nippy. Really though, I am with longgonedaddy as above, the fish tend to eat the shrimp, even if they murder them first. Maybe an ammonia spike from the new stock? Also, just a thought, did you buy fish that might have been treated for ich at the pet store, and introduce the pet store water to your tank? Are you by any chance treating your tank for ich with a copper based med? Spray any bug spray in the room with the tank lately? They could all be kicking off from heart failure with all those predators swimming around with them.<<JOKE-maybe
I did add a lot of new fish in a relatively short period of time however usually with established planted tank there is a lot of beneficial bacteria in the substrate, glass, etc....

My 75 Gallon tank, I clean the filter, change the water, and I have chloramides( which turns into ammonia when Chlorine is removed however safe for 24 hours due to prime)

By the next day, the ammonia alert badge indicates the ammonia is all gone. I'm not sure its the plants or just beneficial bacteria from an established tank.

I must tell you my gust reaction is that the serpae tetras were responsible since they are the only fish listed here which is considered a " semi-aggressive fish" although I have found they are not as bad as other semi-aggressive fish I have seen before.

If the shrimp keep dying, I might have to move the serpae tetras into my 75 gallon tank.

Thanks.
Overwatch is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-26-2016, 10:03 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
natemcnutty's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,419
I wouldn't rely on that ammonia alert alone. It might be worth testing ammonia and especially nitrates. With the added bioload, you may have had a short period where your beneficial bacteria had to catch up and made some of them sick. Also, you probably now have more nitrates being generated than you used to and would be good to check. Shrimp are much less tolerant to nitrates than fish.

Even smaller fish can stress them out which could lead to them getting sick, but if you have enough hiding places to make them feel safe, that probably isn't the issue.

As for the canister filter, I would recommend cleaning the snails out really well and then put a prefiler or sock on the inlet to prevent them from getting in there

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
natemcnutty is online now  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by natemcnutty View Post
I wouldn't rely on that ammonia alert alone. It might be worth testing ammonia and especially nitrates. With the added bioload, you may have had a short period where your beneficial bacteria had to catch up and made some of them sick. Also, you probably now have more nitrates being generated than you used to and would be good to check. Shrimp are much less tolerant to nitrates than fish.

Even smaller fish can stress them out which could lead to them getting sick, but if you have enough hiding places to make them feel safe, that probably isn't the issue.

As for the canister filter, I would recommend cleaning the snails out really well and then put a prefiler or sock on the inlet to prevent them from getting in there

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
That is another mystery I'm trying to figure out.

I have added one of those sponge filters on the canister filter as a prefilter on the canister's intake and yet snails have constantly been in that filter. I don't know if maybe they are microscopic when babies snail catch and find their way in or something?

I think I have cleaned out snails like 2 or 3 times. I am almost considering changing the canister filter to one that does not have the UV filter in order to stop this problem.

Do you have any ideas as to how these snails are getting in the filter?

Thanks.
Overwatch is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 12:50 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
natemcnutty's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overwatch View Post
That is another mystery I'm trying to figure out.

I have added one of those sponge filters on the canister filter intake and yet snails have constantly been in that filter. I don't know if maybe they are microscopic when babies snail catch and find their way in or something?

I think I have cleaned out snails like 2 or 3 times. I am almost considering changing the canister filter to one that does not have the UV filter in order to stop this problem.

Do you have any ideas as to how these snails are getting in the filter?

Thanks.
You must have mini ramshorn snails? Those guys are absolutely tiny when hatched, and you'd need a pretty fine sponge to stop them. The downside to that is it clogs a lot faster...

I've never used a SunSun, so sadly I can't comment much on that. I do wonder if something like a piece of nylon or similar could be used between the sponge and canister (before or after the intake strainer).



Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
natemcnutty is online now  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-27-2016, 08:14 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 24
Definitely would say its the Serpae tetras. As others have mentioned tetras in general can be a little more nippy than you would think. Most of the time smaller ones like neons are totally fine with shrimp but if they were ever to get too hungry they will pick at anything they can.
GreenTerror is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 04:56 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenTerror View Post
Definitely would say its the Serpae tetras. As others have mentioned tetras in general can be a little more nippy than you would think. Most of the time smaller ones like neons are totally fine with shrimp but if they were ever to get too hungry they will pick at anything they can.
I guess it also does not help that I have like 12 of them in my 55 gallon tank.

Maybe more Sepae = more chances to kill shrimp. Do you think I should start to move them to another tank ? Thanks.
Overwatch is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 05:26 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
Nordic's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 4,032
I'd check those loaches.....

Cape Town, South Africa.

Hi. I'm back.
Nordic is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 12-28-2016, 02:45 PM
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2016
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
I'd check those loaches.....


I was told by my lfs that I absolutely couldn't keep khuli loaches with shrimp because they would kill the shrimp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Veritas and Veritas like this.

I know one thing: that I know nothing
proper.noun is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
Banned
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 221
I removed all the Serpae tetra and there is not as many red cherry shrimp dying however I still see some dying.

2 more have died in the last week whereas before there was at least 1 or 2 dead red cherry shrimp every morning. So maybe a 90% decrease of deaths since moving that fish.

What else could probably be causing this?

Loach or maybe the baby Denison barb?

As a reminder, the new additions are

New additions:

1. Black Neon Tetra
2. Fancy Guppy
3. Dojo Loach/ Weather loach
4. Butterfly Loach
5. Baby/small Denison barb.
6. Serpae tetra ( removed from tank)
Overwatch is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 05:25 PM
Planted Member
 
redavalanche's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Pinellas
Posts: 207
Do the shrimp have cover plants, hiding places? Would be nice to see some readings from a relatively inexpensive API Freshwater Master Test Kit.
redavalanche is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome