Planted Biotope with high pH? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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Planted Biotope with high pH?

I have a 20g long that is just too good to waste as a fry tank. I'm thinking of setting up as a planted biotope, but I would like to keep it hooked up to my central filtration for my african tanks which has a pH of 8.0 - 8.2.


I keep cichlids from lake malawi which doesn't have many plants, so I can't really use the fish I have for a biotope.

Any ideas?

I know some areas in southeast asia have a high pH, but I think it also needs to be brackish, which would be a problem.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 06:29 PM
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Unless you are breeding, you shouldn't have to worry about pH as long as there aren't any big 'swings.' So anything would work!
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
anything would work
really? I want to hear more.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Larry Grenier View Post
really? I want to hear more.
By saying, "anything would work," I ment that all planted aquaria (that I know of) would work. Brackish and saltwater setups would obviously not work with a centeral system. I have heard of GH and pH effecting plants, though I haven't heard anything to back it up.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Even if anything would work, since I am doind a biotope, I'd rather have the parameters be close to the biotope that I am replicating. Especially for the fish I may be including in the setup.

Right now the only planted freshwater biotope I can find with a high pH would be south african swamp. Which would be cool, except that it requires soft to medium water and my water is hard.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 08:51 PM
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What about Inle Lake?

BIOTOPE AFICIONADO

56g Guyana Backwater
40g Borneo Stream
20g Crypt brook
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-19-2010, 08:53 PM
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You could do a Mexico livebearer biotope with mollies and goodeids. If you can do it as a riparium there are quite a few good plants to choose from.

Here is a shot of the 120-gallon tank that I put together for some goodeids.



I have always used straight tap in this tank and the plants just thrive with pH 8.2ish.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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I'm not familiar with inle lake. Could you link me to some sources?

hydrophyte, I'm not a fan of mollies, although the plants in your setup are gorgeous. I'm not very familiar with goodeids either, but after a quick search they seem like something I could live with. Although I do prefer egg laying fish over livebearers, mostly because of the interesting behaviors they have. Are there any other fish or invertebrates that could be included that you know of? Is there a source for plants from this biotope that you could link me to?
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeJ View Post
By saying, "anything would work," I ment that all planted aquaria (that I know of) would work. Brackish and saltwater setups would obviously not work with a centeral system. I have heard of GH and pH effecting plants, though I haven't heard anything to back it up.
Jake
Marine plants do not work?



hehe, picking on ya here

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tokyo View Post
Even if anything would work, since I am doind a biotope, I'd rather have the parameters be close to the biotope that I am replicating. Especially for the fish I may be including in the setup.

Right now the only planted freshwater biotope I can find with a high pH would be south african swamp. Which would be cool, except that it requires soft to medium water and my water is hard.
I think you should focus on what you want, not the tap water so much.

My tap has been very hard depending on where I lived, or very soft and few grades in between over the years. KH is the real issue, focus there, not pH, Gh can be higher or lower, just not limiting this is true for both fish and plants, focus on the KH as being the factor you look at, adding plants/CO2 etc modifies the pH, but does little to the KH.

pH in hardwater and soft water systems can and does move up to 2 full units of pH for hardwater marine systems and FW, and about 3-4 full units for soft water FW systems where plants are in abundance.

This occurs daily or 2x a day in tidepools.

So it would depends greatly on WHEN you took that pH measurement from this biotope and what the entire diurnal range for pH is and the alkalinity/KH.

Otherwise, such biotope info is of little use.
Biotopes where fish live are also heterogenous, they are not all the exact same habitat and perfect based on a few parameters taken at a particularly time of day, or season, or rain events, or year yo year, location(often pretty large regions, with different parameters in different pockets.......), plant status etc.........

I think people KNOW much much less than they realize concerning Biotopes.
But insist that the scant info they have is iron clad fact and the only way it might be there.

Do not fall for this.
Like farming and raising livestock, what is in nature does not imply what is best for your goal also. Do not get duped into Biotope pseudo science quackery. Replication is often not the best management solution, nor is it possible in most all cases. Can you get some elements? Sure. But not many.......the so called Biotope aquarium is more like any other planted tank that it is any real natural system.

Regards,
Tom Barr









Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 04:37 PM
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hydo i love that tank.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 05:05 PM Thread Starter
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Very good points plantbrain.

What I would really love to do is a uruguayan biotope with gymnogeophagus australis or gymnogeophagus meridionalis. But this would be impossible on a central filtration system because they need a cooling period of around 50-60F(I think).

My second choice would be a brazilian setup with bolivian rams. Actually, now that I'm looking through the different fish I would want to setup biotopes for, most of them seem to have pH ranges that reach pretty close 8.0.

I think I just had a bad source for my biotope info.

I still may go for the uruguayan biotope, I would just have to set it up seperate from the central filtration at first and hook it up later.
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