Cycling with Dry Start - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
farmhand's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kingsburg California
Posts: 548
Cycling with Dry Start

My next tank I am going to try the dry start method using mineralized Soil Substrate.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...on-talbot.html

I have read that if you fill water just above the substrate and let it sit for a couple of months, then fill and change water, you can greatly reduce your fight with algae. Will the tank cycle without using ammonia, just left on its own?

farmhand aka Clifford aka Grandpa
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

farmhand is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 09:38 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
ldk59's Avatar
 
PTrader: (17/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 492
Send a message via Yahoo to ldk59
Use the "search" feature available here

this topic has been covered many times...

Many of us have used this method with great success..
ldk59 is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-13-2010, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
farmhand's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kingsburg California
Posts: 548
Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ldk59 View Post
Use the "search" feature available here

this topic has been covered many times...

Many of us have used this method with great success..
Yes I am aware that cycling has been asked about and covered until everyone is blue in the face. I do not believe I have seen this specific question.
Will a tank cycle without adding fish or adding ammonia given enough time through a natural process?

farmhand aka Clifford aka Grandpa
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

farmhand is online now  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 01:39 AM
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 150
From my understanding, to cycle the tank, there has to be a source of food to sustain a population of live bacteria. If the substrate contains that food: i.e ADA Aquasoil which leaches ammonia intially, than yes it will sustain a population of good bacteria and will cycle. Even then, this will wane in time and the population of bacteria will die off if not fed - via fish waste etc. But if your substrate does not have a lot of organic content to contribute to the nitrogen cycle i.e gravel for eg, then you will not be able to cycle the tank effectively without adding either ammonia or a couple of fish to start the process. How much food source to fuel the nitrogen cycle is contained in your soil you wish to use is bound to differ from batch to batch depending on the soils origins. Whether your soil contains enough to cycle the tank on it's own, i don't know.
Kamivy is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 02:26 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
bigboij's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 885
anytime ive done a dry start its done little to none, to expedite the speed of the cycle once i fill it up.

imho it does nothing but give your plants a chance too root in. and establish a bit beyond that not much more


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

SunSun Pimp #2
Fluval Ebi Pimp #4
bigboij is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
farmhand's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kingsburg California
Posts: 548
Thanks everyone. Your answers make a lot of sense.

farmhand aka Clifford aka Grandpa
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

farmhand is online now  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 04:21 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
ldk59's Avatar
 
PTrader: (17/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jackson, MI
Posts: 492
Send a message via Yahoo to ldk59
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmhand View Post
Yes I am aware that cycling has been asked about and covered until everyone is blue in the face. I do not believe I have seen this specific question.
Will a tank cycle without adding fish or adding ammonia given enough time through a natural process?
That question has been discussed in many of those threads... Different members have reported different results. *In my personal opinion* the duration of the "dry" period has an effect on the total cycle time.

*In my experience* the cycle is significantly shorter after a dry start (I was able to put shrimp in my Mini-M with ADA Aquasoil one week after filling), I've also found the algae cycle to be less troublesome after a dry start...

HTH

Larry
ldk59 is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
farmhand's Avatar
 
PTrader: (5/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kingsburg California
Posts: 548
Thanks Larry

farmhand aka Clifford aka Grandpa
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

farmhand is online now  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-14-2010, 08:13 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Since it's soil or ADA AS, there's NH4 already in there.
So there's no cycle because 4-8 weeks later, the bacteria is already well established.

Once you fill it, it's like doing the fish less cycling for the last 4-8 weeks.

so the bacteria are well established.........not that it matters, since plants remove the N directly, as long as it's not too high from the initial phase using soil/ADA, you should not measure any.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 09:24 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
volatile's Avatar
 
PTrader: (37/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: California
Posts: 721
Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
Since it's soil or ADA AS, there's NH4 already in there.
So there's no cycle because 4-8 weeks later, the bacteria is already well established.

Once you fill it, it's like doing the fish less cycling for the last 4-8 weeks.

so the bacteria are well established.........not that it matters, since plants remove the N directly, as long as it's not too high from the initial phase using soil/ADA, you should not measure any.

Regards,
Tom Barr
Hey Tom,

I have a question. Everywhere I've read about fishless cycling states that the bacteria need oxygen to survive, reproduce, and establish themselves. In a drystart, how is this oxygen being provided since there are no filters or agitation of the water? Or do the bacteria in a drystart not require oxygen?
volatile is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 04-20-2010, 03:26 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by volatile View Post
Hey Tom,

I have a question. Everywhere I've read about fishless cycling states that the bacteria need oxygen to survive, reproduce, and establish themselves. In a drystart, how is this oxygen being provided since there are no filters or agitation of the water? Or do the bacteria in a drystart not require oxygen?
Roots and diffusion.

For O2 to be gone/removed, the sediment to even become anoxic, anaerobic etc, you MUST have bacteria already established. Bacteria ARE what removes the O2, not plant roots(they pipe O2 from above, then floods sediments, there is a mountain/plenty of evidence of this), not simply a barrier, you have to have something to consume the O2. 100cm deep plain sand layer has the same O2 at the top as it does at bottom.
If you add organic matter, then bacteria, over time, will deplete to the O2, if it cannot be resupplied, then the O2 concentrations decline.

So careful not to put the cart before the horse

Anyway, if you wanted to say cycle the filter as well, not just the sediment, you could easily do this with a bucket, run the filter in there, add the NH3, say 1 Tablespoon and do it once a week for 4 weeks, that should be plenty. Then you dump the water later, no testing needed, no entire aquarium used to merely cycle a little filter.
Then fill the tank etc. The sediment is cycled, and established with a network of O2 pipes, called Roots........to support far larger populations, plants are loaded with bacteria, and they remove the NH4 directly, so you do not even need to bother with cycling the filter.

See silent cycle, this answers most of the questions regarding this part, roots/and establishment answers the other.
This is also why there's no need for heater cables or UGF's.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome