Nutrient Problem? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
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Nutrient Problem?

Hi gang-

I seem to having problems with my Neasea species. Both my Nesaea sp Golden and Nesaea Pedicellata have scrunched up their tips. My water is perfect. I dose extra Mg as I have plenty of Ca in the water. Ideas?




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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 01:06 AM
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how high is your lighting?
what do you dose for ferts?
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 01:44 AM Thread Starter
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125 gallon with 12 x 39 W T5HO
Dose CSM+B + extra iron
Epson Salts
KH=4, GH=7
pH=6.8


I can grow just about anything! I have tried the golden sp twice with the same results. From what I have read that Nesaea are supposed to be moderately easy!
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 03:56 AM
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i had a very similar issue with alternanthera reneikii and to a lesser extent some rotalas. i had almost 4 wpg, very high co2 levels, i dosed kh2po4, kno3, and csm+b. tried dosing k2so4 with no luck. things got better when i started dosing barrs gh booster even though my tests said i had plenty of calcium and magnesium and i was dosing plenty of K.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 04:08 AM
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I also had the same problem with alternanthera. I'm not sure what causes it, but it comes and goes. I saw one stem of altenanthera in my tank the other day that had that look, but all others looked fine. Was like it was the runt of the group. It probably has to do with fertilizer - too much of something/toxicity is what I would guess.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 04:08 AM
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I've had a very similar problem in the past - it eventually caused me to remove the stem plant altogether. I'm interested in hearing what the cause is also.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ManyHobbies View Post
125 gallon with 12 x 39 W T5HO
Dose CSM+B + extra iron
Epson Salts
KH=4, GH=7
pH=6.8


I can grow just about anything! I have tried the golden sp twice with the same results. From what I have read that Nesaea are supposed to be moderately easy!
Do you dose any nitrogen or phosphurs? Your bacopa looks nitrogen deficient.

This may be helpful - https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pl...reineckii.html
Here the discussion focued on CO2 issues.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 04:14 AM
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You need Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphorus. That much light an no co2???
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helgymatt View Post
Do you dose any nitrogen or phosphurs? Your bacopa looks nitrogen deficient.

This may be helpful - https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/pl...reineckii.html
Here the discussion focued on CO2 issues.

i've read that poor root structure can cause this. i gues that kinda goes in line with what mr barr says in that link
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
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i've read that poor root structure can cause this. i gues that kinda goes in line with what mr barr says in that link
This makes sence - it's probably a combination of related issues. Like nutrient deficiency/toxicity, CO2, and lack of roots.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 04:19 PM
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I have no issues unless I have too much light and not enough CO2, nutrients had very little effect.

Same for Ammania, Neasea, and A reineckii.
They are poor competitors for CO2, so some plants will do well, others like these 3, tend not to if you are moderately limiting CO2.



You can see how little light it gets being overshadowed.

Some aquarist moderately limit a nutrient, (thereby reducing and limiting CO2 uptake by all plants). Since the nutrient is more limiting than CO2, they seem to believe that this is evidence of a direct relationship between toxicity/excess nutrients and plant health.

When they add more of the limiting nutrients, say PO4, then the aquarium goes from a a decent supply of CO2 to a limited supply, and the PO4 goes from limiting, to non limiting. Of course the CO2 demands goes up when you remove the bottle neck.

But when someone else can grow the SAME species and has high PO4 and no issues, it's falsifies the hypothesis that it is an excess issue. It cannot be.

Indirect relationships and Liebig's law of the minimum apply. Some still do not understand this when pointed out to them. Divorced from reality I suppose, easier to believe the myth and not confront the root issue.

If you add MORE light, do you expect more CO2 demand and more nutrient uptake ???

Sure, so why would this not also apply to other limiting nutrients?

What happens if you use LESS light? You'd expect less demand of CO2/nutrients etc.

So using less light, makes better sense and is easier to control and manage, reduces far more waste than any other method, since that is the root starting point for all growth and demand cascades for resources in plants and algae.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helgymatt View Post
This makes sence - it's probably a combination of related issues. Like nutrient deficiency/toxicity, CO2, and lack of roots.
Interesting. I have stepped up my efforts to have a more balanced nutrients. Seems like the Nesaea, Ammaniam and Pogostemon species have all suffered from this problem IME.

Would heater cables help or hurt in this situation? Seems like when I put my fingers in the substrate it certainly feels warmer than the water!
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-26-2010, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
I have no issues unless I have too much light and not enough CO2, nutrients had very little effect.

Same for Ammania, Neasea, and A reineckii.
They are poor competitors for CO2, so some plants will do well, others like these 3, tend not to if you are moderately limiting CO2.
Sorry, I missed your post...

As a follow up, I have also observed the CO2 sensitivity in these plants as well and really points to the importance of a good distribution system for CO2. Of the three plants listed (in my tank at least) I would say the Neasea>Ammania>reineckii as far as sensitivity to changes in nutrients/CO2. So stabilizing my CO2 (keeping the filter unclogged) should help?

So if you have a tank full of plants that are great at taking up CO2 (assuming nutrients are OK) how much variability in CO2 is there during the course of a day? Along those lines, I have seen my plants start to pearl like mad almost immediately after a large pruning- more CO2 available as the CO2 consuming plants are removed.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
I have no issues unless I have too much light and not enough CO2, nutrients had very little effect.

Same for Ammania, Neasea, and A reineckii.
They are poor competitors for CO2, so some plants will do well, others like these 3, tend not to if you are moderately limiting CO2.



You can see how little light it gets being overshadowed.

Some aquarist moderately limit a nutrient, (thereby reducing and limiting CO2 uptake by all plants). Since the nutrient is more limiting than CO2, they seem to believe that this is evidence of a direct relationship between toxicity/excess nutrients and plant health.

When they add more of the limiting nutrients, say PO4, then the aquarium goes from a a decent supply of CO2 to a limited supply, and the PO4 goes from limiting, to non limiting. Of course the CO2 demands goes up when you remove the bottle neck.

But when someone else can grow the SAME species and has high PO4 and no issues, it's falsifies the hypothesis that it is an excess issue. It cannot be.

Indirect relationships and Liebig's law of the minimum apply. Some still do not understand this when pointed out to them. Divorced from reality I suppose, easier to believe the myth and not confront the root issue.

If you add MORE light, do you expect more CO2 demand and more nutrient uptake ???

Sure, so why would this not also apply to other limiting nutrients?

What happens if you use LESS light? You'd expect less demand of CO2/nutrients etc.

So using less light, makes better sense and is easier to control and manage, reduces far more waste than any other method, since that is the root starting point for all growth and demand cascades for resources in plants and algae.

Regards,
Tom Barr
I've had some inbalances in my tank lately - which I think stemmed from forgetting to add dechlorinator. Anyway, I agree that too much light is a start of a lot of problems. In my 75 I have had 2 54 watt HOT5 for 8 hrs and 4 54 watt for 2 hours midday. I decided I didn't need the extra 2 bulbs for the middday burst. I'll see how the plants respond. After a year of that light schedule I didn't see a reason for the xtra light anymore other than more algae and other inbalances. All I'm growing are easy plants anymore too.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 03-28-2010, 04:19 AM
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I had similar problems like these, low calcium was my problem. Dosed and it went away.
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