I am puzzled! and frushtrated - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 01:05 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 157
I am puzzled! and frushtrated

Hi guys,
I know I am still new at this plant game, about 1 year, but I am having problems getting plants to thrive.
So far the only species of plant that will grow in my tank are Willow leaf Hygro, Rotal Macarondra ( which is beautifull, top 3 inches of plant is rose colored), Brazilian Pennywort and Ammana Gracillis( also very pretty going from green to orange to pink from top to bottom).
Plants that just hang around with no growth or decay are Java fern, Alterneth Renicki Corkscrew val and Crypt. Wenditi.
I have no luck with Java moss, Ludwiga thin or broad leaf.
My water temp is at 79f, ph is at 7.0, gh is at 5, kh is at 4.
I have 30 fish in the tank. 6 empror tetras, 8 sunset tetras, 9 sae's, 5 clown loaches, 1 discuss, and 2 VERY LARGE WILD ANGELS.
My system is about 300 gallons substrate is 100% flourite, a lot of driftwood( heavy african stuff). The tank measures 80"long 23" wide and 30" deep. I have Co2 injection 3 bubbles/sec. 4 returns from my Iwaki 70 cut to about 60% to reduce the tornado effect. Lights are on for 10 hours 6*96watt pcs...2 5500k , 2 6700k, 2 8800k. I add seachen flourish, seachem iron , and seachem Po. I have no algae problems. Please advise.
jmiz16 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 01:29 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 314
You might need some c02 injection with that kind of light

Although it is 30 inches deep so Im not sure,

Doesnt kevlin have something to do with how far the light penetrates the water? You might try having some higher kelvin lighting to get deeper

Just a couple ideas to research, Im sure some of the more experienced people will have a more definate answer.
Pearljam11 is offline  
post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 01:45 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
WfxXx's Avatar
 
PTrader: (125/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 3,037
Your problem is most likely you Nitrates and your phosphates..

Craig

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by WfxXx; 10-08-2005 at 12:10 AM.
WfxXx is offline  
 
post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 01:56 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
That is an enormous and deep tank. Because your case isn't the usual, take my suggestion with a grain of salt.

First your CO2 levels are only at 12ppm...get it higher and see if that has any effect. It could be that your driftwood is also lowering your pH, making your CO2 reading false and much less then 12ppm. To find out take a cup of tank water and let it sit for 24 hours. Test for pH and KH and hopefully you get readings that put your around 3ppm of CO2.

What are you parameter's like? Nitrates, phosphates, dose any K?

After your CO2 and nutrients have been in check, then consider this.
I've recently been reading about the importance of light intensity and penetration. In short, the blue spectrum of lighting provides the best penetration while red is easily dispersed (this why the sky is blue :p). For such a deep tank you need to make the best of your lighting. Higher K bulbs, like 10,000k and more of your 8800k's can provide the blue light you are looking for. You arn't doing the best you can with 5500k bulb. Reflector are also critical. Got any? Is this the 6x96w AHSupply kit?
Rolo is offline  
post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 02:48 PM
Are these real?
 
Wasserpest's Avatar
 
PTrader: (195/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 15,647
Yeah I know, these 300 gallon tanks can be really frustrating

What's weird is that macranda and Amannia are growing fine while Java moss, Java Fern and Crypts aren't doing well. Often it is vice versa. To me, that's a sign that you have sufficient light and CO2. Like others said, measure your NO3 and PO4 levels and see if there are any.

Got any pics?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Wasserpest is offline  
post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 157
let me add a few more details. I have no reading of nitrates, not on my kit or the fish stores kit. I have a reflector and can change my 2 5500 to 10000k bulbs in a minute. I also change 30-40% of the water every week to 10 days. My water out of the tap is 7.8 ph
jmiz16 is offline  
post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 04:02 PM
Planted Member
 
sn8k's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: SFO East Bay Area
Posts: 270
I think you may get better results with your Java Moss if you lowered the tank temp to ~76/77 degrees. Anything over 80 seems to kill it, and your tank at 79 degrees F is right on the edge. It could also be lack of Nitrate and too-dense "planting" when new. I lost a bunch of moss in the past by tying it to the wood in dense mats rather than nice and loose bits. You really do need to test for NO3 - try mail order. HTH

Mark K...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Eheim Pimp Club Member #37


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Eheim 2028 Pro II - 8w AquaUV Sterilizer - 48" Aqualight 2-65W 6700K & 2-55W 9325K - (4) 3/4Watt Aqualight Lunar Blue-Moon-Glow LEDs - 160lbs EcoComplete substrate - Dupla Therm 500 substrate heater w/Temp Control - Hydor ETH300 inline heater - pressurized Co2 w/pH controller - Reactor 1000 CO2 - & lots of other misc. crap
sn8k is offline  
post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 04:23 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,165
If you have no nitrates, that's your problem. rotala macranda usually only turns pink in the absence of nitrates. however the rest of your plants are starving. You ahve a high light, CO2 injected tank, and no nutrients. Get your nitrates up to at least 10ppm. Get a phosphate kit and test, then add up to 1.0ppm phosphate.

you probably lack potassium as well. Flourish line is good stuff, but weak. I used an entire bottle of Flourish K in 3 weeks on my 75 gallon tank. You could just about dump the whole bottle in your tank and not have any negative effect. You need to be dry dosing ferts on a tank that big with that much light.
malkore is offline  
post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 157
OK, SO HELP ME OUT A LITTLE MORE.
How do I add large quantities cheap? And where and what exactly do I get?
And should I change either the 6700k 0r 5500k bulbs to 10000k? after all I thought that plants liked red light.
P.S. I would rather not lose the pink tips on my Mac.
jmiz16 is offline  
post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 04:48 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
www.gregwatson.com

KNO3 - Potassium Nitrate - for nitrates
KH2PO4 - Mono Potassium Phosphate - for phosphates
K2SO4 - Potassium Sulfate - for potassium

For a tank your size I would buy 5 pounds of KNO3 to last you over a year with fairly heavy nitrate dosing. A pound of KH2PO4 will last forever. You really have to decide for yourself how much K2SO4 you need. A common way to dose K is to do 20ppm after every water change. For you that would be roughly 45 grams/week. That's about 20 lb/year. That's just one case scenario, and the heaviest K dosing you would ever do. Some dose just by the signs of K deficiency, which would mean about 3-4 pounds for you. Some don't even dose K2SO4 at all. They let the K from KNO3 do the job.

It all really depends on how you much K you're willing to dose and your budget. An alternative is KCl, potassium chloride. If I remember right, someone here was able to get 50lbs at his local farmers coop for under $10.

Those three above cover the macros, N-P-K. While you're at it, you want to cover your traces and iron in bulk too since commercial ferts are going to cost way to much for your tank.

1lb of CSM+B for traces
1/2lb of 10% Iron chelate

If you don't have an accurate scale, the aquatic measuring spoons will help out when dosing the traces, iron, and phosphate. Using stock solutions won't be so practically with such a large tank.
Rolo is offline  
post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 157
I hope the feds don't come knocking on my door with all those chemicals. How do I know if I am showing defecienies?
jmiz16 is offline  
post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 08:39 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmiz16
I hope the feds don't come knocking on my door with all those chemicals. How do I know if I am showing defecienies?
We order from him all the time and those chemicals are as illegal as baking soda.

Nutrient deficiency chart
Chucks dosing calculator
Rolo is offline  
post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 11:07 PM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearljam11
You might need some c02 injection with that kind of light

Although it is 30 inches deep so Im not sure,

Doesnt kevlin have something to do with how far the light penetrates the water? You might try having some higher kelvin lighting to get deeper

Just a couple ideas to research, Im sure some of the more experienced people will have a more definate answer.

He does have CO2.

Kelvin is the color temperature of the light, not how deep it penetrates into the water. Lower K ratings tend to produce a more yellow light.
putty is offline  
post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-27-2004, 11:55 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 1,740
Quote:
Originally Posted by putty
He does have CO2.

Kelvin is the color temperature of the light, not how deep it penetrates into the water. Lower K ratings tend to produce a more yellow light.
Putty, PearlJam is correct about light penetration and K ratings. As you said, K is the color temperature of the light - indicating which colors the light as a whole is heavy or light on. Higher K bulbs have more blues, and thus penetrate the water effectively, while lower K bulbs have more reds and are easily dispersed.
Rolo is offline  
post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-28-2004, 12:00 AM
Guest
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 666
Light Penetration
Another concern with lighting your aquarium, is how well the light will penetrate to the bottom of the tank. In a short tank, this is not an issue. However as the height of the tank passes about 18", the water interferes with the light enough that, while the tank may appear well lit to the observer, the light that is reaching the bottom of the tank is no longer strong enough to help live plants (which should receive good lighting all the way to their bases) or photosynthetic live corals. Using high intensity N.O. fluorescent bulbs can give you another few inches of penetration, however, you provide good light penetration for more than 22" with N.O. fluorescent lights. Power compact or V.H.O. fluorescent lights penetrate further into your water column, typically providing effective lighting for tanks up to 30" high. Metal halide lights provide the best penetration and are beneficial in tanks over 30" high.

I was under the impression that its sheer Wattage that punches light down to the bottom, I have never heard of the correlation you describe. Doesn't mean its not true though. I would bet that the benefits of K on depth penetration, pale in comparison to increasing wattage via something like a MH light.
putty is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome