Cheap Nano Reef Questions (sorry lol) - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 01:32 AM
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[/QUOTE]
You should also have a much larger tank for an anemone. I once had a green bubble tip anemone fill almost 2/3 of a 90 gal tank. You need not go that large, but I'd recommend a 40 gal breeder as about a minimum size. [/QUOTE]

I have never seen a bubble tip anenome grow that large, usually they grow a certain size then split into two seperate anenomes, is it possible it was a carpet anenome? They can cover a great deal of real estate.
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post #17 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
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That tank is pretty much what I want, it has enough color to keep me entertained for its size.

Thanks for the advice I would have added my cleanup crew before the fish, and possibly corals before the fish. In freshwater I usually cycle, then plant adding cleanup crew at the same time then wait a while before I add my fish (feeding cleanup crew).

I personally have all open top tanks, but that is freshwater. Some of the reasons to keep a lid with this setup is being next to my bed I am not sure how strong the smell of salt would be, and mainly light-bleeding I do not want any light overshooting the tank....my head will be about 18" from the tank. Also its perfectly fit and comes with the tank already, I will make sure I lift it once a day to release any built up gasses as long as there is enough space above the water for them to build in.

Wow nice tank how big is that? With the price of corals I can not see having that much surface area to fill, I would want it densely colored even if its a larger tank which means I am probably limited to what can live up against each other. I have a question that has always picked my brain about saltwater tanks...what is the deal with the multi-colored algae looking stuff that covers the glass, rock, and power heads? I always wondered why people never cleaned all that color off their hardware in the tank but it actually looks nice.

I had no idea anenome moved! I thought all corals were like plants; they can stretch and grow but not get up and move. Maybe an anenome is a plant and not a coral? Maybe I should do more research before asking these questions. Can a carpet anenome be pruned back the way you prune freshwater plants??
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post #18 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 06:49 PM
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I kept a 10g nano Reef for many years that had nothing more than an Aquaclear 110 (with sponge only) and a single powerhead. I kept some corals and two clownfish.

I also had a 20g with the exact same set up except I made the AC 110 into a mini refugium.

Don't over think them. All you need is a ton of live rock, water movement and a light stock and you're golden. Very easy to keep. (easier than a planted tank).

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post #19 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 09:01 PM
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I think you should make one of those

they are the cheapest and easiest to run, due to no topoff machinery needed and they run 4 days in between topoff. they do the wall of color you want, too small for fish but that's your liability anyway in a small reef tank, the fish. not the coral.

size is not what determines stability in a reef, this vase is older than 90% of reef tanks online. control of params like temp and salinity are what really matter in reefing, the rest is just weekly water changes. the reverse is actually true in reefing, the smaller it is the easier it is to run vs a large reef but only if temp and salinity controls are in place, without them then dilution and gallonage certainly matters.

but with salinity control in place, you can change all the water in this tank in 3 mins, and keep it perpetually clean, much easier than working on a larger tank. if algae grows on a rock in one of these, you lift it out and remove it. with a large tank people tend to spend mos and yrs doing things to the water, and waiting for hope.

the square tank you have pictured is more common but it requires daily topoff or auto eq to do it, and its footprint is a lot bigger than the vase. the vase is bubbled, the airpump is louder that may not work for you. both of these tanks have the same stability challenges despite their size differences...anything under 15 gallons or so behaves similarly
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post #20 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 09:21 PM
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Keep it as simple as possible. Know what's important (this is the most difficult part - read, read read) and stick to it. I would say that the important things are:

1. Keep your parameters as stable as possible. Salinity is big in a small tank due to evaporation. Monitor it. If you keep corals, monitor calcium/magnesium/alkalinity/pH. Nothing but heart ache if you don't.

2. In a nano, you have limited equipment options. Get the best filter, etc. that you can. Don't mess with things like refugiums unless they offer something you need (such as a place for pods to reproduce for specific fish that you shouldn't keep in a nano any way). Make a list of equipment you think you should have and then remove anything you don't think you need.

3. Keep logs of everything you do to the tank or anything you see hapen. It's easy to tinker with reefs - as well as fun - but it also causes problems for people all the time.

4. Go slow! There's a popular and accurate phrase in the hobby that says "nothing but death happens quickly". A lot of times letting it run its course is the best option unless it's something really important, like a sick fish.

5. Take all advice with a grain of salt. This is a hobby where established knowledge gets overturned all the time. While I think everything I've said is great advice, I'm just some rando on the internet. This is all based on my experiences and readings. When I started almost 10 years ago, the prevailing thought was that nitrates and phosphates were dangerous and had to be removed for the health of fish and corals. Now people are dosing nitrates in their tanks! - As a corollary to this point, don't get caught up in fads either. They can waste your tank if you aren't careful (and even if you are)!

6. Know your limits.

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post #21 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teebo View Post
I had no idea anenome moved! I thought all corals were like plants; they can stretch and grow but not get up and move. Maybe an anenome is a plant and not a coral? Maybe I should do more research before asking these questions. Can a carpet anenome be pruned back the way you prune freshwater plants??
Absolutely! They are very much animals, more closely related to jellyfish than corals. Anemones cannot be pruned, and "pruning" any coral (called "fragging" e.g. "fragmenting") is a careful process. You have to make sure that stony corals each get a "mouth" when they are fragged or they won't be able to eat or expel waste.

This is a commercial for Fauna Marin coral food. You don't have to use something like this (most people feed these types of coral frozen food or pellet food) but you can see a large brain coral eating in this video.
https://youtu.be/VmGY3XvTGHw

Afterward, they also will expel some waste out of their mouth too (like a small cloud of dust).

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post #22 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 09:39 PM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnzPP0jZ15Y


I think you should make one of those

they are the cheapest and easiest to run, due to no topoff machinery needed and they run 4 days in between topoff.

-snip-
Ease of maintenance and stability are inverse. Larger tanks are harder to maintain but easier to keep "stable", which is a huge factor in reef tanks. Small set ups are harder to keep stable but easier to maintain. If you are good at one or the other, choose accordingly.

JMO.

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post #23 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 09:57 PM
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My take was more geared towards comparing two smaller tanks not so much a 1 gal vs a 60

I agree dilution helps with power outages, longer time till frozen etc or if you misdose the smaller tank quicker bad happens, but of the biological params between two nanos I think it's tight race to compare

between a 9 gallon tank with no ato, and a 1 gallon tank w no ato need I'm calling it close lol

We think excluding fish equates the two sizes in risk. Large tanks lose whole systems with fish death while on vacation or a full dump doser malfunction, sometimes having bare bones helps in longevity too beyond just size
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post #24 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 12:20 AM
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There is yet another setup even simpler than mine
It won't grow as many corals but it's even more stable, zero topoff. Keeps basic corals only has no water movement beyond natural (temp mediated water movement, Brownian motion, stilled systems aren't still

Google

PJ reefs mini reefs

Quarter gallon no heater no pump

It runs more stable chemically just sitting there vs 200 gallon reef tank, but only grows a few small corals, ultra slow reefing so space won't fill up.

Those are valid systems I watched the concept get invented ( stilled reefs, not sealed reefs that's not Paul's discovery ) at nano reef.com

The concept of stilled reef tanks is profound and legit and new for us, formerly claimed impossible just like pico reefs in general

I know the OP asked about a typical reef tank, everyone wants fish. As he mentioned size, cost and noise and for those we have strong examples

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post #25 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 05:06 AM
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So I was trying to quote davek on needing large tank for an enenome and failed, I hang my head in shame. I disagree though, I haven't seen them take over a tank like that, but I could be wrong.
Your welcome to disagree with me, but I recommended only a 40 gal breeder for a BTA. I don't consider this to be a large tank at all. I'd put that in the category of a large nano. Now if someone put a BTA in a 30 gal tank, that could work. Note the op was talking about a 5.5 gal tank or a 10 gal tank, both sizes I would consider far too small for a BTA.

Some of this size does depend on the exact species and the system it's in and all that. Even so, BTA can get larger that you would think. Ever see even a modest size one fully expanded? They can easily get 8 - 10 inches across, and yes they can deflate to something smaller than a tennis ball.

As for the size mine got to, I am speaking from personal experience here. Over the years I have seen several others about as large. So yes, some BTAs do get that big. Some claim that an anemone splits when it's not quite happy with it's environment. I have seen them split under all sorts of conditions, so I'm not buying it, but I thought I'd pass it along.
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post #26 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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Are both carpeting and BTA the same being alive? I saw one at the pet store today the bottom had a sucker like a giant snail, once they are happy they do not move right?

So all coral are more living creatures than actual plants? Soft and hard? That is kind of creepy haha

Thanks for all your input everyone, I do take things very slow no problem there. I certainly would like to start small and the ReefBowl is an awesome concept I never knew about!! I really like this idea I may be able to make it work for me, they do sell silent air pumps. The only thing is without a heater that bowl will get down to 60F in the winter here possibly even lower @ 58F. There is so much bacteria in bio-rock that doing a 100% water change in a SW tank does not affect the chemistry as long as your additives have been added? I see people with a cleaner shrimp and snails in these reef vases as well!

If I was to make a vase...regarding the lighting I have a bunch of 10,000K LED bulbs does it have to be 15-20K for corals?

Thanks for the link I see how the polyps have a mouth/craphole...catdog stuff what a horrible life haha

I asked about the multicolored algae looking stuff on the SW tanks at the LFS today and they said it is indeed algae, and if its red it is beneficial. They were not sure about other colors or if other colors were even algae.

Every piece of coral for sale was mounted to a tiny ceramic looking disc is that artificial bio-rock? Do you pluck them off and plant them or wait for them to move off the disc and onto your bio-rock?

Thanks I know this is loaded with questions
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post #27 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 04:37 PM
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reefbowls do have a heater, search out either mine or ones from Maritza the vase reef there are full build steps online

not for anems or fish, so that must be factored ahead of time as well. the things they do best are cost, the cheapest reef that can be made for several types of coral, and stability of running. you change the water weekly and you add distilled water as topoff every few or couple days depending on how fast you have your air rate set. simplicity is their appeal but some people want animals and things added that require the normal size reef tank, technicality and cost. what they keep is a simple shrimp and then several types of coral we can see from the vids...not the fish or the larger anems though.

you can do 100% water changes and dose nothing to these, only feeding is required. I dose mine but Maritza does not, its ok to do either way, the feeding quality matters most and the weekly water changes. these are a nice way to see if you want to go full on reefing before you spend all the usual $ to start

regarding lighting selection there is only one way that works to avoid having to guess, and that's to locate a nano reef thread where corals from plugs grew into larger corals under whichever light you are considering, only that can pinpoint which light works ahead of time, an actual grow thread. not a thread with the light shining over someones nano reef, a grow thread.

its ok to guess and try a light too, that's just different than starting with whats been demod already
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Last edited by brandon429; 03-10-2016 at 04:44 PM. Reason: clarify
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post #28 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
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The few videos I saw online of picos did not include a heater, some used a tiny power-head instead of just an air stone.

The only reason I would want an anem is if I had / for the clown fish so that is okay. I would be happy with coral and a shrimp, I see two types of SQ shrimp at my LFS, some are red and white with long claws and some are red and off-white with tiny claws.

I think this is a great way to break into the hobby, however I am not 100% sure the vase is for me the shape is not very good to work with I can not view it 360 degrees where it would be. With this being said, I think I would like to back away from my 12 gallon idea into a pico without fish, then if I like this I can jump from a pico right past the 12G into something like a 20+ gallon tank. I am back to looking for pico tanks if I am going to do this I want it to at least look nice. Something like a Fluval Spec 2.6 would run a pico like a boss right? https://youtu.be/rTnxSR4f5T0


Check this out for chits and giggles! Standing gumball machine reef with a sump in the stand! https://youtu.be/lI9ixB4e0Pc
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post #29 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 09:18 PM
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Yes those will work nicely, the only trade-off is the topoff detail
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post #30 of 82 (permalink) Old 03-11-2016, 01:43 AM
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I don't think a pico or a vase would be a good choice for a first SW system. It's not that you can't make an interesting system or that they do not work. They do, but they require a fairly delicate balance to be maintained, and there isn't too much margin for error.

Most beginners will make a few mistakes. This almost always occurs. By having a somewhat larger system you have some additional latitude if you do something wrong. An experienced person will know very quickly if something just is not right, and from their experience will do most things correct from the start. This tends to make these very small systems look easy.

You need not get a monster system. It can be modest, but leave yourself some wiggle room for possible mistakes.
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