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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2004, 02:57 AM Thread Starter
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Pinholes?

i have pinholes in the leaves of my crypt ciliata. they are yellow around the edges. they are in new leaves and old leaves. does anyone have an idea what deficiency this is? could it be iron? can this plant get it iron through its leaves or does it have to get it from the substrate?
could you inject a liquid iron supplement into the substrate? thanks...
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2004, 03:55 PM
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http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_nutrient.htm
Go to this link and see if you can identify your deficiency by looking at the chart.
Check the Mg section. If you are not dosing Mg, I would recommend it.

IME, yes all Crypts. can uptake nutrients, including Fe through their leaves. I've got a ton of Crypts., including Ciliata, and they are doing beautifully with daily dosages of Plantex + B. I don't trust or use 'in-substrate' tabs or Jobe's Sticks, and find them to be unnecessary.


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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2004, 06:26 PM
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Are you seeing pin holes in any other plant besides your C. cilliata? My first guess would be low levels of K (potassium) but I would expect to see that symptom in anubius plants before I saw it in swordplants or crypts. Are you dosing anything to the water column?

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Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

It's a fine line between fishing and standing on the shore looking like an idiot.

That IS an aquascape, it's titled "The Vacant Lot".
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2004, 09:49 PM
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It sounds like it could be low Potassium levels to me as well.

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2004, 10:18 PM Thread Starter
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i have only seen the pinholes in the ciliata. i dose kno3 every 2-3 days, flourish twice a week, and leafzone once a week. i have the morton salt substitute, but i am unclear on how much to dose. i read the thread on it, but im still not sure. also would the phosphate in it raise po4 levels any? if someone would give me some advice on dosing it, i would greatly appreciate it.
thanks..
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-07-2004, 10:57 PM
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Start dosing your traces on a daily basis, and if you don't already dose Mg, it would be a good idea to start that as well. I dose it according to Chuck's Calculator at water change.
As to your question regarding the dosing of K, download Chuck's Calculator for your destop and it will tell you what is appropriate for your tank.
www.csd.net/~gadd/aqua/articles.htm
If you have a light fish load you may not have to dose any K+ however. The KNO3 you dose will do the job.
Just figure out how many mls. of Flourish you are dosing a week, and break it up into smaller doses on a daily basis. This, more than anything else I've done, has made the largest difference in the quality of growth in my tanks.
Some trace elements have a limited 'shelf life' in the water table, and dosing on a daily basis helps sustain them (particularly Fe) in the water.

Len

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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-08-2004, 01:17 AM
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I seriously doubt that a magnesium deficiency is the cause the the holes in your Crypt. If you have a gH of over 3° and do any kind of regular water changes you would be hard pressed to have a magnesium deficiency. Also since Crypts are so slow growing almost any other plant in your tank would show signs of a deficiency before a Crypt.

I'm surprised that all you aquatic minds have missed what I see as the the most likely culprit. Snails or a fish. If the holes were not in the new leaves I would say it is the old emersed growth leaves dying off. Have these new leaves appeared since the Crypt has been submerged?
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-08-2004, 02:09 AM Thread Starter
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the holes arent in the new leaves when they first start opening up, they appear a couple of days later. they are just small holes that are yellow around the edge. i dont think its my fish or snails since no other plants have been damaged. my gh is 3 or 4 and i have to dose epsom salts to get it there. out of the tap the gh is 0. i assume there is no calcium in the water, could that be the problem. so i should dose flourish every day? what about the morton salt substitute?
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-08-2004, 11:48 AM
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Looking at the picture of the tank, I see lots of plants that fish and snails would consider a buffet before looking at C. ciliata. But that raises another question as I don't see a C. ciliata in the tank.

What was your last set of water parameter measurements?

The epsom salts cover the Mg that Len is concerned about. What are you using to supply Ca to a C. ciliata. One thing I've found is that crypts like some Ca in the water column, if not in the substrate.

Sean

Aquascape? I'm a crypt farmer.

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That IS an aquascape, it's titled "The Vacant Lot".
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-08-2004, 12:41 PM
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Are you dosing potassium? If you have soft water with a low gH and kH and you dose potassium at recommended levels it can really effect calcium uptake levels. I have the same problem with very soft water and find that if I start dosing potassium at anything close to recommended levels I get calcium uptake problems.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-08-2004, 01:30 PM
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In addition to Sean's request for your latest water parameters, I would like to know exactly what you are dosing and when.
Also, frequency of water changes, and how large.
We are all making recommendations without knowing anything about the above.
And yes, dosing trace elements on a daily basis is far better than dosing and equal weekly amount 2 or 3 times a week.

Len

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-08-2004, 06:33 PM Thread Starter
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the picture of my tank is over 3 months old. my tank looks completely different now. i will try to get a new pic up soon. as for water changes, i change about 24 gallons a week. i dose kno3 and po4 as needed. flourish twice a week, and leafzone maybe once a week.
ph-6.4
kh-4
gh-3
no3-10
po4-1
i have also used jobes 13-4-5 sticks under my root feeders. i know some may disagree with this, but my sword plant has really had a big growthspurt since i used these. te only plant im really having a problem with is the ciliata.
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-09-2004, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
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what about the morton salt substitute? can i use chucks calc for dosing this?
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-09-2004, 03:00 AM
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This salt substitute is KCl right? and your using it to soften your hard water or just to dose? If your softening hard water then you probably got a ton of K already. It won't work well with chucks calc if your using spoons cause its in pellets, and not powder, and grinding it yourself probably won't get it to the same density chuck is using. I remember reading that K and Ca ratios are important. When they are out of balance bad stuff can happen. Just search the Krib for help on that. Seem like you could have alot of K and little Ca.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-09-2004, 03:21 AM Thread Starter
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no, its not in pellet form, its in a salt shaker. i was planning on using it to dose k but if it softens water maybe i shouldnt use it since my gh is 0 out of the tap. the ingredients are potassium chloride, fumaric acid, tricalcium phosphate, and monocalcium phosphate. on the nutrition facts it says potassium-610mg 17%. maybe i could use leafzone for dosing k?
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