Where can I get chemical things for Poor Man's Dosing Drops at locals? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 06:08 PM Thread Starter
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Where can I get chemical things for Poor Man's Dosing Drops at locals?

Hi

I want to try Poor Man's Dosing Drops. Do you know hwere can I get there chemical things, like K2SO4 at NJ local?

Thanks!
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-23-2006, 07:25 PM
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I don't know the answer, but I do know that you will get the best deal by purchasing them from http://www.gregwatson.com/. Low price, low shipping price, fast service, good customer service.

Hoppy
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 01:54 AM
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Hoppy is right, even if he isn't from NJ!

Greg Watson is the place to go.

Mike
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, guys!

I knew that website. But still want to try get something from local. Because I only hvae a 10g tank. I do not even need 1 lbs.

Well, I found at Walmart, Greenlight Stump Remover, which is actually KNO3, my gf told me at her lab, they have K2SO4. I use Flourish as micro and trace. So I only need to find KH2PO4.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 11:36 PM
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You could use fleet enema from the pharmacy isle for that...

Also, KCl (for K) is available as NuSalt or something like that in your grocery store.


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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-24-2006, 11:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hutucong
Thanks, guys!

I knew that website. But still want to try get something from local. Because I only hvae a 10g tank. I do not even need 1 lbs.

Well, I found at Walmart, Greenlight Stump Remover, which is actually KNO3, my gf told me at her lab, they have K2SO4. I use Flourish as micro and trace. So I only need to find KH2PO4.
Hello and welcome to the forum! - not too far from me - up 22 a bit

If phosphate is what you are after, and you've sourced the over items...get some fleet enema. Yes, really...

Otherwise, just as the others have said, Gregwatson is the place. I doubt you could buy smaller quanties elsewhere anyway. There are a few hydroponics stores that may carry it in NJ, but never checked into it.


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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-25-2006, 12:03 AM Thread Starter
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Okie, I see.

Fleet Enema
Manufacturer: Fleet
----------------------------------------------------
ELEMENTAL AND ELECTROLYTIC CONTENT
mEq Phosphate (PO 4 ) per mL 4.15
mEq Sodium (Na) per mL 1.61
mg Sodium (Na) per mL 37
mmole Phosphorus (P) per mL 1.38

NuSalt Canisters
Nutrition Facts:
Serving Size 1/6 tsp (1 g)


Amount per Serving % Daily Value*
Calories 0
Total fat 0g 0%
Sodium 0mg 0%
Potassium 530mg 15%
Total carb. Less than 1g 0%
Protein 0g 0%

So Greenlight Stump Remover(N+K) + Fleet Enema(P)+NuSalt(K) will be grocery PMDD. I am wondering if any one has an mixing/dipping instruction for that? Maybe I can calculate one by myself.

One question I see alot of Na at Fleet Enema and NuSalt, is that fine?
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-25-2006, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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Macro PMDD from Grocery Stores

Nitrate (NO3) from KNO3 (Greenlight Stump Remover, you can get it from Walmart)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greenlight brand stump remover is pure potassium nitrate (KNO3). Get it at a plant nursery store.Do not use other stump removers as they could be poison based!

Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) = 101.1, NO3 = 62, therefore NO3 is 61% of KNO3. From consensus on the Aquatic Pants Mailing List it is recommended to use 5 ppm KNO3 twice per week. 5 ppm NO3 = 5 mg/l NO3. Since KNO3 is 61% NO3 you need 5/.61 = 8.2 mg/l of KNO3. In 10 gallons there are 3.77 x 10 = 37.7 liters. For 10 gallons you need 37.7x8.2 = 309 mg of KNO3. To get 10 ppm NO3 from KNO3 in each 10 gallons of water add 0.31 grams of KNO3.
Suppose 10g has 8.5g water. So only 0.31x0.85=0.264g KNO3 is needed to to get 10 ppm NO3 from KNO3. The density of KNO3 (Greenlight Stump Remover) is 1.002g/ml. So 0.263 ml is needed to get 10 ppm NO3 from KNO3.
If 5ml diluted KNO3 is used for each dosing And one 500 ml bottle is used to store the liquid. Total 0.263*500/5=26.3ml Greenlight Stump Remover should be added into a 500 ml water.

Phosphate from Fleet PHOSPHO-SODA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(I found Fleet PHOSPHO-SODA at home, so I decide to use it instead of Fleet Enema, all these Fleet things can be found at drug stores)

Each Tablespoon (15 mL) of Unflavored or Natural Ginger-lemon flavor FLEET® Phospho-soda® contains 7.2 g monobasic sodium phosphate monohydrate and 2.7 g dibasic sodium phosphate heptahydrate in a stable, buffered aqueous solution. Monobasic Sodium Phosphate monohydrate (NaH2PO4·H20) = 138, PO4 = 95, therefore PO4 is 69% of NaH2PO4·H20. Dibasic Sodium Phosphate heptahydrate Na2HPO4·7H20 = 268, PO4 = 95, therefore PO4 is 36% of Na2HPO4·7H20.
1 ml FLEET® Phospho-soda has 7.2/15x0.69 + 2.7/15x0.36=0.395g PO4,
Target range for phosphate is 1/4 to no more than 1/2 mg/l in the aquarium. 0.5 ppm PO4 = 0.5 mg/l PO4. In 10 gallons there are 3.77 x 10 x 0.85 = 32 liters water
For 10 gallons you need 32 x 0.5 = 16 mg of PO4.
To get 0.5 ppm PO4 from FLEET® Phospho-soda in each 10 gallons of water add 16 mg of PO4 or 16/395=0.040506 ml FLEET® Phospho-soda.
If 5ml diluted FLEET® Phospho-soda is used for each dosing And one 500 ml bottle is used to store the liquid. Total 0.040506 ml*500/5=4.05ml FLEET® Phospho-soda should be added into a 500 ml water.

Potassium (K) from K2SO4
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suppose KNO3 is already added into tank, so 39.1/62x5ppm=3.15ppm K is already in the water.
Target range for potassium is 15 mg/l in water replaced weekly only. So each liter of water, (15-3.15)x(39.1x2+32+16x4)/(39.1x2)= 26.39mg K2SO4 is required. In 10 gallons there are 3.77 x 10 x 0.85 = 32 liters water. For 10 gallons you need 32 x 26.39mg = 0.844g K2SO4. If 10 ml diluted K2SO4 is used for each dosing And one 500 ml bottle is used to store the liquid. Total 0.844*500/10 = 42.2 g K2SO4 should be added into a 500 ml water.

Conclusion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prepare solution like below, it should provide 50 weeks' macro for 10g plant tank.

Add 26.3ml Greenlight Stump Remover into 500ml water. Dosing twice per week. Each time doses 5 ml for N and K. Target is 5ppm NO3.

Add 4.05ml FLEET® Phospho-soda into 500 ml water. Dosing twice per week. Each time doses 5 ml for P. Target is 0.5 ppm PO4.

Add 42.2g K2SO4 into 500 ml water. Dosing once 10ml after water changing per week. Combined with Greenlight Stump Remover, target is 15 ppm for K.

Reference
------------------------------------------------------------------

Some part of my calculation is directlly copied from Steve's web Page of the first link.
http://users.ev1.net/~spituch/Chemicals/chemicals.html
http://www.msnusers.com/LyreTailsAqu...rtilizers.msnw
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-25-2006, 03:29 AM Thread Starter
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Hope my calculation is right. Please point out any mistakes, thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hutucong
PMDD from Grocery Stores

Nitrate (NO3) from KNO3 (Greenlight Stump Remover, you can get it from Walmart)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greenlight brand stump remover is pure potassium nitrate (KNO3). Get it at a plant nursery store.Do not use other stump removers as they could be poison based!

Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) = 101.1, NO3 = 62, therefore NO3 is 61% of KNO3. From consensus on the Aquatic Pants Mailing List it is recommended to use 5 ppm KNO3 twice per week. 5 ppm NO3 = 5 mg/l NO3. Since KNO3 is 61% NO3 you need 5/.61 = 8.2 mg/l of KNO3. In 10 gallons there are 3.77 x 10 = 37.7 liters. For 10 gallons you need 37.7x8.2 = 309 mg of KNO3. To get 10 ppm NO3 from KNO3 in each 10 gallons of water add 0.31 grams of KNO3.
Suppose 10g has 8.5g water. So only 0.31x0.85=0.264g KNO3 is needed to to get 10 ppm NO3 from KNO3. The density of KNO3 (Greenlight Stump Remover) is 1.002g/ml. So 0.263 ml is needed to get 10 ppm NO3 from KNO3.
If 5ml diluted KNO3 is used for each dosing And one 500 ml bottle is used to store the liquid. Total 0.263*500/5=26.3ml Greenlight Stump Remover should be added into a 500 ml water.

Phosphate from Fleet PHOSPHO-SODA
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(I found Fleet PHOSPHO-SODA at home, so I decide to use it instead of Fleet Enema, all these Fleet things can be found at drug stores)

Each Tablespoon (15 mL) of Unflavored or Natural Ginger-lemon flavor FLEET® Phospho-soda® contains 7.2 g monobasic sodium phosphate monohydrate and 2.7 g dibasic sodium phosphate heptahydrate in a stable, buffered aqueous solution. Monobasic Sodium Phosphate monohydrate (NaH2PO4·H20) = 138, PO4 = 95, therefore PO4 is 69% of NaH2PO4·H20. Dibasic Sodium Phosphate heptahydrate Na2HPO4·7H20 = 268, PO4 = 95, therefore PO4 is 36% of Na2HPO4·7H20.
1 ml FLEET® Phospho-soda has 7.2/15x0.69 + 2.7/15x0.36=0.395g PO4,
Target range for phosphate is 1/4 to no more than 1/2 mg/l in the aquarium. 0.5 ppm PO4 = 0.5 mg/l PO4. In 10 gallons there are 3.77 x 10 x 0.85 = 32 liters water
For 10 gallons you need 32 x 0.5 = 16 mg of PO4.
To get 0.5 ppm PO4 from FLEET® Phospho-soda in each 10 gallons of water add 16 mg of PO4 or 16/395=0.040506 ml FLEET® Phospho-soda.
If 5ml diluted FLEET® Phospho-soda is used for each dosing And one 500 ml bottle is used to store the liquid. Total 0.040506 ml*500/5=4.05ml FLEET® Phospho-soda should be added into a 500 ml water.

Potassium (K) from K2SO4
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Suppose KNO3 is already added into tank, so 39.1/62x5ppm=3.15ppm K is already in the water.
Target range for potassium is 15 mg/l in water replaced weekly only. So each liter of water, (15-3.15)x(39.1x2+32+16x4)/(39.1x2)= 26.39mg K2SO4 is required. In 10 gallons there are 3.77 x 10 x 0.85 = 32 liters water. For 10 gallons you need 32 x 26.39mg = 0.844g K2SO4. If 10 ml diluted K2SO4 is used for each dosing And one 500 ml bottle is used to store the liquid. Total 0.844*500/10 = 42.2 g K2SO4 should be added into a 500 ml water.

Conclusion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prepare solution like below, it should provide 50 weeks' macro for 10g plant tank.

Add 26.3ml Greenlight Stump Remover into 500ml water. Dosing twice per week. Each time doses 5 ml for N and K. Target is 5ppm NO3.

Add 4.05ml FLEET® Phospho-soda into 500 ml water. Dosing twice per week. Each time doses 5 ml for P. Target is 0.5 ppm PO4.

Add 42.2g K2SO4 into 500 ml water. Dosing once 10ml after water changing per week. Combined with Greenlight Stump Remover, target is 15 ppm for K.

Reference
http://users.ev1.net/~spituch/Chemicals/chemicals.html
http://www.msnusers.com/LyreTailsAqu...rtilizers.msnw
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 05:03 AM
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Welcome to this great forum!

At some point though, the 35 dollars or so with shipping from gregwatson is kind of the place to go. If you ever have questions on dosing, mixing, and results; you don't even have to ask most of the time around here. Just search an old thread. There are ten people asking about it every week.

I looked back through this forum when I found it recently and it seems like the historical advice never stops.

Plus using this rather cheap method, you don't have to constantly look over your notes to verify you are mixing properly because the products you find locally may have different concentrations, or have other gifts added in, as impurities etc etc...

** Soapbox edit: I always see people post about the Home Depot or Walmart, stump stuff. But who knows how long that stuff has sat around, and the quality of this once you dillute it down to an aquarium level. Greg is going to give you what you need and in a sterile form due to the volume being shipped out contstantly. Plus if you are making a post like this in the first place, you most likely don't have other planted tank expertise laying around, so why not choke up the $35 and do it the easy way. We do crazy DIY projects all the time, but why spend soooo much time saving $10? ** sorry

just my two cents ( I am a friendly guy, not a rant'errr )
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, guys

It is not the matter of money. Do some math for fun:-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ktulu_JL
Welcome to this great forum!

At some point though, the 35 dollars or so with shipping from gregwatson is kind of the place to go. If you ever have questions on dosing, mixing, and results; you don't even have to ask most of the time around here. Just search an old thread. There are ten people asking about it every week.

I looked back through this forum when I found it recently and it seems like the historical advice never stops.

Plus using this rather cheap method, you don't have to constantly look over your notes to verify you are mixing properly because the products you find locally may have different concentrations, or have other gifts added in, as impurities etc etc...

** Soapbox edit: I always see people post about the Home Depot or Walmart, stump stuff. But who knows how long that stuff has sat around, and the quality of this once you dillute it down to an aquarium level. Greg is going to give you what you need and in a sterile form due to the volume being shipped out contstantly. Plus if you are making a post like this in the first place, you most likely don't have other planted tank expertise laying around, so why not choke up the $35 and do it the easy way. We do crazy DIY projects all the time, but why spend soooo much time saving $10? ** sorry

just my two cents ( I am a friendly guy, not a rant'errr )
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-29-2006, 11:57 PM
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I _completely_ undersand. I like to make things difficult as well.
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