hydrocotyle sp japan doesnt grow - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
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hydrocotyle sp japan doesnt grow

Hi all,

After 4+ separate attempts to grow this plant, it never takes off. I've bought from two different places, both healthy specimen that when planted, don't die but are stagnant and don't really grow new leaves (maybe a few tiny ones) and eventually after a few weeks start to slowly die off (leaves start to get small holes and disintegrate). I noticed the stems tend to not root well.

I don't seem to have this issue with other plants so I'm just confused whether my tank parameters are just not right for hydrocotyle? Kinda disappointing since I love the look of it and have always wanted a hydrocotyle jungle in my tank :/

Tank specs:
Low tech, no co2
Lighting period: 7.5 hrs daily
pH 8.2 / kh 9 / gh 15
Soil is UNS controsoil but it's about 1.5 years old already so I assume it's already used most of the nutrients during that time
I add half dose of Thrive C once a week because most of my plant mass are slower growing plants like buce, anubias and crypts
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 12:59 AM
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Mine has been growing pretty well. Started with a tiny plant, grew it out, then hacked it apart a month ago into little pieces to spread around and try to get a carpet going.

Here's how its doing currently:



I'm also low tech, no co2.
8 hours light per day (currently around 22 par best guess, was running at 30 par previously), pH 8 (yeah, I know, too high for Cardinals long term, but they are doing great right now :-S), KH 6, gh 7 last time I tested.
Plain white sand, dosing dry ferts at 1/3 EI dosing, once per week.

Still getting some green spot algae on the leaves, so have lowered my light a bit more because I suspect I still have too much light for no-co2.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 01:45 AM
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What light and how big/deep of a tank?

Thrive C is already leaned out for low tech so may need to up your dosing a bit. Try same amount but dosed 2x a week.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKS View Post
What light and how big/deep of a tank?

Thrive C is already leaned out for low tech so may need to up your dosing a bit. Try same amount but dosed 2x a week.
My light is about 16W and 3000 lumens, other than that I'm not sure how to describe it. My tank is a standard 10g with a depth of 12 inches.

The reason I stuck with a half dose is because after dosing once, I tested my nitrates and they went from 20ppm to 40+ppm, which was a little alarming and I tested a week later and nitrates had only really decreased to about 30ppm. I have since added more plant mass with some faster growing plants so I might try to up the dosing like you suggested to see if it does anything.

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Originally Posted by fermentedfunk View Post
Mine has been growing pretty well. Started with a tiny plant, grew it out, then hacked it apart a month ago into little pieces to spread around and try to get a carpet going.

I'm also low tech, no co2.
8 hours light per day (currently around 22 par best guess, was running at 30 par previously), pH 8 (yeah, I know, too high for Cardinals long term, but they are doing great right now :-S), KH 6, gh 7 last time I tested.
Plain white sand, dosing dry ferts at 1/3 EI dosing, once per week.

Still getting some green spot algae on the leaves, so have lowered my light a bit more because I suspect I still have too much light for no-co2.
That looks awesome I wish I could get my hydrocotyle to grow like that!
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-02-2020, 06:40 AM
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From NilocG page on ThriveC....

Dosing Instructions
For Advanced Users: 1 pump(2ml) per 10g will add ~6ppm NO3, 1.1ppm PO4, 5ppm K, and 0.25ppm Fe

So it’s physically impossible for a 2ml dose of ThriveC per10gal to raise nitrates 20ppm. You had a testing error or something. When you get up into 30ppm on API test it’s really hard to discern 20ppm or 30ppm. So if you were closer to 30ppm adding 6ppm you would probably interpret than as 40ppm.

Anyway for a low tech tank I’d suggest you keep it 10-15ppm anyway. Do you have a Phosphate test? If not get a Salifert brand one, API is really hard to read.

Do you have picture of whole tank and a few close up pics of the plants? You’d be surprised what you can learn about tank sometimes just looking for signs of deficiency.

If it was my tank I’d start buying distilled water and mixing it with your tap to get hardness and PH down and upping your water changes/cleaning to get nitrates down. You really need to get that PH down to 7.5 or so and GH around 8. A lot of plants have a problem with a PH and GH as high. As yours.

How much livestock are you keeping in that 10g?

Does your light have a brand/model name or are you doing the DIY bulb thing?
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-03-2020, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKS View Post
From NilocG page on ThriveC....

Dosing Instructions
For Advanced Users: 1 pump(2ml) per 10g will add ~6ppm NO3, 1.1ppm PO4, 5ppm K, and 0.25ppm Fe

So itís physically impossible for a 2ml dose of ThriveC per10gal to raise nitrates 20ppm. You had a testing error or something. When you get up into 30ppm on API test itís really hard to discern 20ppm or 30ppm. So if you were closer to 30ppm adding 6ppm you would probably interpret than as 40ppm.

Anyway for a low tech tank Iíd suggest you keep it 10-15ppm anyway. Do you have a Phosphate test? If not get a Salifert brand one, API is really hard to read.

Do you have picture of whole tank and a few close up pics of the plants? Youíd be surprised what you can learn about tank sometimes just looking for signs of deficiency.

If it was my tank Iíd start buying distilled water and mixing it with your tap to get hardness and PH down and upping your water changes/cleaning to get nitrates down. You really need to get that PH down to 7.5 or so and GH around 8. A lot of plants have a problem with a PH and GH as high. As yours.

How much livestock are you keeping in that 10g?

Does your light have a brand/model name or are you doing the DIY bulb thing?
Interesting, I may have to try testing again as my first test may have been faulty. Thanks for looking that up for me, it gives me more peace of mind to know my nitrates dont sky rocket when I add in Thrive C.

I do not have a phosphate test at the moment, but I will look into it. I do have an RODI water filter for home use so I supposed I could use some of that, but personally I'd like to keep my tank as low maintenance as possible and just keep whichever plants/livestock that can handle the conditions I have at the moment. I think I have noticed certain plants don't do well in my tank, as you mentioned due to my high pH/gh so I may have to reevaluate my expectations based on how much work I am willing to put into this. I may just have to give up my dream of a hydrocotyle jungle lol thank you for your solid advice though!

My lighting is just an offbrand aquarium light I got on amazon but it is no longer available so I can't quite remember the name. However I do remember it being 16W and 3000 lumens but it has different options for dimming/led colors.

My livestock includes:
1 african dwarf frog
1 otocinclus
2 chili rasbora
6 amano shrimp
some malaysian trumpet snails

I added a couple pictures, unfortunately the hydroctyle is in hard to reach areas of my tank so I couldn't get very clear pictures but hopefully you can still kinda see how they look. They were more full and healthy looking when I first got them but it's been a few weeks since and they are definitely not thriving and they kind of just sit there in the dirt doing nothing until they slowly waste away.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-04-2020, 02:31 AM
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Try cutting your tap with RO, say 50/50 or more RO, let it set out for 24hrs then measure PH and GH. You might find itís pretty easy to bring your tanks ranges down into more acceptable plant tank ranges.

I myself only use RO and add a few minerals and couple leaves back in for GH of 4-5 and PH around 6.6-6.8. My thoughts are if youíve got RO use it, there are a lot of other compounds it removes beside softening water. The cost of minerals are inconsequential in my 7gal or your 10gal size tanks. Youíll be totally surprised the way your tank will turn around if you just start using remineralized RO water. Just start slowly weaning your tank off the hardwater and dechlorinators, when shifting GH/PH make small slow changes. Once you get a formula for mixing up your water itís basically no harder than what you do now. And if your getting inferior results are you really keeping your tank maintenance low, when tank and plants thrive maintenance always goes down. Constantly fighting deteriorating plants and algae is not making your tank low maintenance, just the opposite.

Anyway going by pics, if thatís representative of light levels in tank youíve got low light at level japan is at. Probably not going to do much.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-04-2020, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waterblossom View Post
My light is about 16W and 3000 lumens, other than that I'm not sure how to describe it. My tank is a standard 10g with a depth of 12 inches.
That sounds like a lot of light on a 10g without co2. How are the other plants doing?


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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-06-2020, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKS View Post
Try cutting your tap with RO, say 50/50 or more RO, let it set out for 24hrs then measure PH and GH. You might find itís pretty easy to bring your tanks ranges down into more acceptable plant tank ranges.

I myself only use RO and add a few minerals and couple leaves back in for GH of 4-5 and PH around 6.6-6.8. My thoughts are if youíve got RO use it, there are a lot of other compounds it removes beside softening water. The cost of minerals are inconsequential in my 7gal or your 10gal size tanks. Youíll be totally surprised the way your tank will turn around if you just start using remineralized RO water. Just start slowly weaning your tank off the hardwater and dechlorinators, when shifting GH/PH make small slow changes. Once you get a formula for mixing up your water itís basically no harder than what you do now. And if your getting inferior results are you really keeping your tank maintenance low, when tank and plants thrive maintenance always goes down. Constantly fighting deteriorating plants and algae is not making your tank low maintenance, just the opposite.

Anyway going by pics, if thatís representative of light levels in tank youíve got low light at level japan is at. Probably not going to do much.
I agree with you, I might start to add RO water into my tank slowly and hopefully it'll make some changes. Although, for the most part the crypts/buce/moss and some other "easier" plants I have in my tank don't seem to have any particular problems so far. I do often have my anubias nana petite getting green spot algae on old leaves tho, which does bother me some. But you are right, I do want my plants to thrive overall so I can lessen the maintenance and see them healthy.

Also, I have to mention that actually for a long while I had my lighting at a much dimmer setting because I had only very slow growing plants at the time and I figured that blasting the light was probably not necessary. After I planted in the hydrocotyle, it was still under a dimmer light for about the first two weeks until I realize the hydrocotyle was slowly deteriorating and I figured maybe the low lighting was not allowing them to establish correctly so then I bumped the lighting intensity way up. It's been about two weeks since then. The picture does look a bit dim but in real life if it quite bright. The only thing is that the hydrocotyle is in a bit of a shaded area and not in the full light. I'll take your advice and keep up with an extra dose of ferts and see if the hydroctyle starts to pick up.

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That sounds like a lot of light on a 10g without co2. How are the other plants doing?
Yes, you are right. Actually my lighting was at a dimmed setting (probably around 40% intensity) for a long while because I didn't have too much plant mass and the plants I did have were slow growing and I wanted to keep my light on for a longer period of time for more viewing. I think my low light made them grow even slower than they already do though. But I feel that I was able to have a relatively algae free tank with the exception of some green spot algae on the glass and on a few anubias leaves. However I've gotten quite a few more plants that are quicker growing and I felt that a brighter light was probably necessary. I don't think I'm on the highest intensity setting though, I think there's a setting that's even more bright than the one I have now.

Other plants seem to be fine, the newest ones (just added like 5 new plants a couple weeks ago) seem to be growing healthy but some of my older crypt parva leaves are starting to get some algae on them and the affected anubias leaves seem to be getting more algae on them. Also my hob filter outflow has some hair algae or some kind of long green stringy algae attached to it that flows like seaweed as the water comes through lol. It grows pretty fast because it's directly in the sight of the light. That's the only place I see the hair algae growing though. I kind of just pluck them out when I do maintenance and then they just grow back lol

Last edited by Darkblade48; 07-07-2020 at 07:45 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 07-07-2020, 05:07 AM
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Iíll also add that wattage of fixture is not end all/be all of judging a light. Efficiency of the led plays a major part in it. You can easily have 10-20% more par or actual pur delivered to tank simply based on the brand/type/spectrum of led used.
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