Limno Rugosa Deficiency - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 08-31-2019, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Limno Rugosa Deficiency

Tips are melting on the top ones, and holes in a lot of leaves. They've gone through 3 top offs and same deficiency every time. I'll add more K and replant tops again, just not sure about the melting. I've had severe melt from temps getting into the 80s, but not this time. Current dosing is: 4 tbsp Ca, 2tbps Mg, 1/2 tsp K weekly, and 1/2 tsp NO3 + 1/8 tsp PO4 every other week. 50% wc every Sunday. Co2 is ramped to max as fish permit. Fluval Planted 3.0 light on max, 6 hour photo period. @Seattle_Aquarist

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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 12:40 AM
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Hi @Igor95,

What is the tank size please? (So I can determine the ppm that is being dosed) I assume you are dosing CaSO4 for calcium and MgSO4 for magnesium?

Do you check any of your water parameters? If so fill in below what you can please.

pH -

dKH -

dGH -

Nitrates (ppm of NO3) -

Also, I did not see any mention of micro-nutrients / iron - are you dosing these and if so how much and how often?

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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 06:10 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry Roy. 75G tank, yes, CaSO4/MgSO4.
PH is 7.0-7.2.
NO3 is 10.
Dosing 1/8 tsp every other day of plantex csm+b.
Not sure about the dKH/dGH.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-01-2019, 04:22 PM
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Hi @Igor95,

Typically when I see clear leaf margins I have a calcium deficiency; and when I see holes in my older leaves I suspect a potassium deficiency. However I don't think that is what is happening here.

You seem to have veered away substantially from typical EI dosing. In addition you are dosing 2.5 to almost 3 times the amount of calcium and magnesium that would be considered "normal" along with some excess of potassium (K). I am concerned that you may have added sufficient Ca and Mg to increase the dGH beyond 'normal' levels (4.0 - 6.0 dGH). Excessive magnesium can effect the uptake of calcium. Excess calcium can effect the uptake of potassium. Excess calcium and potassium can effect the uptake of magnesium.

Here is what I suggest.

Pick up a dKH/dGH test kit (I use API); test and record your tank water readings and your faucet water readings before doing any changes. Report back with your results and we will decide how to proceed.

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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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The results are in.
TANK: PO4: 5ppm - KH:2 GH: Stopped testing after 20... NO3: 30-40ppm
TAP: KH: 1-2 GH: 2-3
I'll be honest, I haven't tested params in a while. I'm guessing now we don't dose Ca/Mg for the next few weeks, then scale down to something like 1tbsp Ca/ 1/2 tbsp Mg? Won't be dosing PO4/NO3 for a few weeks either. What would you suggest? Thank you!
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 07:11 PM
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Hi @Igor95,

As suspected, high dGH. We don't know how much of that 20+ dGH is calcium and how much is magnesium but the high dGH is likely impeding the uptake of potassium and possibly calcium.

Here is what I would do:

Do a 50% water change. Do not dose anything afterwards except de-chloronator.

Wait 2 days

Do another 50% water change. Do not dose anything afterwards except de-chloronator.

Wait 2 days

Next weekend do a regular water change then check your water parameters afterwards and we will review. Hopefully the dGH is down substantially as well as the PO4 and the NO3. Your tap water is very, very similar to mine. Since I have a 75 gallon as well we will likely start with my dosing levels and adjust as needed.
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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Awesome, sounds good. As always thanks a ton!
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-02-2019, 09:20 PM
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If the above advice doesn't work I would suggest sending out a sample of your water to a lab for testing:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This will accurately measure 33 elements in your water down to parts per billion levels. Simply highlight all nutrients in your fertilizer and then look for zeros. A zero nutrient level indicates you are out of that nutrient and more will have to be added. Also note that while your water has little to no free chlorine in it. this kit will detect a substantial amount mainly for chloride salts in the water which are harmless.









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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks @Surf. If anything, I might send in my filter drinking water in, don't see a point of sending in tank water as its always changing. @Seattle_Aquarist, alright so 2/3 water changes are done, and a filter cleaning. Last water change tomorrow, would like to know what the dosing will look like starting Monday.
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 03:36 PM
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Hi @Igor95

Great, after the water change tomorrow and water parameter testing should have a stable tank to start with. I should have asked, you provided the dKH and dGH of your tap water.....would you please check it for nitrates (NO3) as well? The dKH and dGH in the tank should be lower after two water changes.....look at the newest leaves on several species in your tank.....do you notice any changes?

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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-07-2019, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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NO3 from tap is 0. No changes on new leaves of the limno rugosa. Weird thing is the new growth is good no holes, the mid-lower ones are hole ridden. Also the tips are missing, not sure if it's the SAE's are picking on the bba growing on the tips. In terms of growth, the new growth is good. The ludwigia rubin's new leaves are drooping downwards. Another thing I should add is that the holes look like they're being burned through. Like a piece of salt was left on the leaf and burned it through. Also some leaves are scrunching up.

First picture you see the problem the best.

https://imgur.com/NRYU2yN - transparent leaf on the left+scrunched up leaf on the right.

https://imgur.com/DgI3TAK

https://imgur.com/6lEf1E9

Last edited by Igor95; 09-08-2019 at 01:23 AM. Reason: typo
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-08-2019, 02:52 AM
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Hi @Igor95

I think I would classify "no holes" as a change. Are you saying the new leaves or the older leaves have the tips 'missing'?

The 'clear leaf' on the left, and the 'scrunched up' on the right along with the new leaves on the L. repens with the classic "hooked downward leaf tip" are all symptoms caused by low calcium. I suspect that your dGH tomorrow will be well below the 20+ ppm you had last week. Looking forward to your readings after the water changed tomorrow.

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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Ok @Seattle_Aquarist, 3rd water change was done and the results are:
PO4- 2ppm
NO3- 5ppm
GH-7-8
KH-2

Where are we going from here? My main concern is micros/K dosing since I can't test for that. I really want to balance it out. Another thing I'd like to add is the fact that more leaves are getting scrunched up, I'm guessing they're getting used to the new parameters + no ferts all week and melting away a bit... but what do you think about this?

Last edited by Igor95; 09-09-2019 at 09:19 PM. Reason: typo
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 10:22 PM
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Hi @Igor95,

Let's start dosing again; we're going to start slowly and see how the plants respond.

For your 75 gallon this is what I suggest:

Day 1: 50% water change:
1-1/4 tsp CaSO4 (4 ppm Ca / 0.5 dGH); 5/8 tsp MgSO4 (1.38 ppm Mg / 0.33 dGH); 5/8 tsp K2SO4 (7.5 ppm K)

Day 2:
1/8 tsp. (2.14 ppm) KNO3; 1/4 (3.0 ppm) K2SO4; 1/8 tsp. (2.0 ppm) KH2PO4; 6.0 ml Flourish Comprehensive

Day3:
5/16 tsp CSM+B; 3/4 tsp Seachem Iron**; + 1/2 tsp CaSO4 (2 ppm Ca / 0.25 dGH); + 1/4 tsp MgSO4 (0.65 ppm Mg / 0.15 dGH)

Day 4:
Skip

Day 5:
1/8 tsp. (2.14 ppm) KNO3; 1/4 (3.0 ppm) K2SO4; 1/8 tsp. (2.0 ppm) KH2PO4; 6.0 ml Flourish Comprehensive

Day 6:
5/16 tsp CSM+B; 3/4 tsp Seachem Iron**; (no additional Ca or Mg on this day)

** I use my own mix for Iron consisting of 4 parts CSM+B, 1 part Ferrous Gluconate 12.46%, 1 part DTPA Iron Chelate (all by volume) however I have acid water in my tanks and the CSM+B is less effective in alkaline conditions.

Do the above for two weeks and let's re-evaluate how the newest leaves look. Do not look at any existing leaves, they will not improve and may continue to decline. We are interested in the size, color, and shaped of the new leaves as they are formed and mature.

Questions? Just ask! -Roy

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 09-09-2019, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Been refreshing the page all day waiting for your response! As always, thanks a ton!
1 Question: Can we do without the seachem iron/comp? Don't have it on hand, but I can order it now if needed...

Last edited by Igor95; 09-09-2019 at 10:40 PM. Reason: edit
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