Fact or Myth - Liquid Carbon harmful to Bucephalandra - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Fact or Myth - Liquid Carbon harmful to Bucephalandra

The Buce in my tank were becoming mushy and loosing leaves... One of my friends told me that liquid carbon is harmful to Bucephalandra...

Is this fact or Myth?

Gok
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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 04:17 PM
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I dose excel everyday that i’m home and nothing seems to effect the buch one of them even floweredn


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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 04:36 PM
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Glutaraldehyde does kill some plants, but in my experience they are thin walled plants such as Val. It appears to have wiped out subwassertang in my own tanks but others claim to use it with that plant with no issues. I would not expect it to kill Buce, just because of how thick and rigid it is. As with most additives, dosage is likely the biggest factor.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
Glutaraldehyde does kill some plants, but in my experience they are thin walled plants such as Val. It appears to have wiped out subwassertang in my own tanks but others claim to use it with that plant with no issues. I would not expect it to kill Buce, just because of how thick and rigid it is. As with most additives, dosage is likely the biggest factor.
It is an algaecide...

But I don't have sufficient info to support either of the theories... Harmful or not harmful...

Gok

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I dose excel everyday that i’m home and nothing seems to effect the buch one of them even floweredn


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I envy that Buce flowering... I lost all the leaves and just the stem is left over... This has happened in two tanks and I do not have a substantial info to prove it is not harmful...

Gok

Last edited by Darkblade48; 06-25-2019 at 11:45 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 11:53 AM
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There's no such thing as liquid carbon, carbon is a gas and only becomes a liquid under pressure, yes its detrimental to plants and livestock.

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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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There's no such thing as liquid carbon, carbon is a gas and only becomes a liquid under pressure, yes its detrimental to plants and livestock.

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I have been using liquid carbon for years now and not all plants or livestock are affected....

Only Buce is affected so far and there is no scientific evidence to this...

Gok
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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 02:31 PM
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Carbon dioxide is a gas, carbon is not. It is not possible to create liquid carbon without extremely high pressure and temperature. When people incorrectly refer to “liquid carbon” for aquarium plant use, they are talking about gluteraldehyde (found in Excel, Enhance, etc.), which is a carbon supplement. It is not liquid carbon or liquid CO2.

The companies that provide this for aquarium use do not promote it as an algaecide. However, it can be used as an algaecide (red algae). It is also very useful in providing a little extra carbon than what is dissolved under normal atmospheric conditions and this can make a noticeable difference in plant health when CO2 is not injected.

At recommended dosages:

- It will damage Anacharis, Vals and moss balls (which are actually a form of algae) and there are reports of damage to subwassertang, but is quite beneficial to the vast majority of plants. It is possible to acclimate problem plants to it.

- It will not harm fish.
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Last edited by Deanna; 06-29-2019 at 02:45 PM. Reason: correction
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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanna View Post
Carbon dioxide is a gas, carbon is not. It is not possible to create liquid carbon without extremely high pressure and temperature. When people incorrectly refer to “liquid carbon” for aquarium plant use, they are talking about gluteraldehyde (found in Excel, Enhance, etc.), which is a carbon supplement. It is not liquid carbon or liquid CO2.

The companies that provide this for aquarium use do not promote it as an algaecide. However, it can be used as an algaecide (red algae). It is also very useful in providing a little extra carbon than what is dissolved under normal atmospheric conditions and this can make a noticeable difference in plant health when CO2 is not injected.

At recommended dosages:

- It will damage Anacharis, Vals and some mosses (which are actually bacteria) and there are reports of damage to subwassertang, but is quite beneficial to the vast majority of plants. It is possible to acclimate problem plants to it.

- It will not harm fish.
I have used excel to get rid of hair algae by spraying it using a syringe on the affected area... Agree on the effect of it on certain mosses.. But will it affect Buce?

Gok
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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by aaron.in View Post
I have used excel to get rid of hair algae by spraying it using a syringe on the affected area... Agree on the effect of it on certain mosses.. But will it affect Buce?

Gok
I've never had an issue using it with Buce. In fact I have some Buce in my current setup and am using it daily at normal dosing levels.
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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by aaron.in View Post
I have used excel to get rid of hair algae by spraying it using a syringe on the affected area... Agree on the effect of it on certain mosses.. But will it affect Buce?

Gok
As @Blue Ridge Reef mentioned, it affects the simpler celled plants, such as those mentioned. It should not affect Buce, but I do not recall ever seeing a comment on Buce, either way.
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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys... It definitely looks the issue is not with this dosing.

Gok
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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
Glutaraldehyde does kill some plants, but in my experience they are thin walled plants such as Val. It appears to have wiped out subwassertang in my own tanks but others claim to use it with that plant with no issues. I would not expect it to kill Buce, just because of how thick and rigid it is. As with most additives, dosage is likely the biggest factor.

I have two huge buces in my 125 gallon tank. The tank gets 70ml of Metricide (8x the suggested dosing for excel) every day. So, no. Cabomba and vals are the only things I’ve seen it affect. I wish it would kill Subwassertang! I can’t get rid of the stuff.
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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 11:34 PM
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I couldn't either until a heavy Excel dose, but you're the second person who has said the same. It straight up turned white (guppy grass did too). Now I'm wondering what secondary factors are going on for that to happen. Doesn't seem possible a plant could build up tolerance.
@aaron.in, I wish I could have had "a list of plants you may want to avoid unless you want them for life" when I started out. Java moss is in every aquarium I own and I didn't deliberately put it in most. I like subwassertang in shrimp tanks, but wish I'd never put it in two of mine (I'd try the Excel blast but shrimp). Duckweed has taken up hours of my time but at least duckweed floats.

Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-27-2019, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
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@Jaye Thanks a mill for confirming that.
@Blue Ridge Reef Yes, that would have been nice to have a list... In fact, I never had any other plants but for Buce...

I have fallen in love with Buce, unfortunately I couldn't keep them alive in my tanks...

Gok
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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-27-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by aaron.in View Post
@Jaye Thanks a mill for confirming that.
@Blue Ridge Reef Yes, that would have been nice to have a list... In fact, I never had any other plants but for Buce...

I have fallen in love with Buce, unfortunately I couldn't keep them alive in my tanks...

Gok
Since the glut dosing has been ruled out as a killer of Buce, and you are concerned about it not growing, maybe you should start a new post along the lines of "Can't Get Buce To Grow". If you do, post as many parameters as possible. These would include:

- Light: PAR reading at the substrate and photoperiod?
- CO2 setup (if any) and how you measure CO2 levels in the water if you do inject CO2?
- Current NO3, PO4, GH, KH, pH and TDS readings?
- What you are dosing (product and quantity) and how often?
- Substrate type and how long has it been in place?
- What is your filter setup?
- Cleaning regimen (filter and water change frequency and amount)?
- Circulation: surface rippling and are all plants gently moving from top to bottom?
- What is your water source and do you use a water softener?
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