ADA Aquasoil Life per Amano - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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ADA Aquasoil Life per Amano

Takashi Amano's article in this month's the Aquatic Gardener, where he is re-setting up an Iwagumi aquascape, suggests that ADA Aquasoil Amazonia may only be a nutrient rich substrate for a year or so. He says, "Old Aqua Soil was carefully removed one section at a time and new soil was added. Doing so ensures that the aquatic plants that will be planted next will grow well." This is being done about one year after the tank was first set up - one year?

Tom Barr reported that he found much better growth on new Aquasoil than on old Aquasoil in the same tank - you could see the dividing line between the old and new soil by the plant growth. However, I don't recall how much time there was on the old soil.

Maybe this is the achilles heel of ADA Aquasoil?

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 05:00 PM
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isn't that the case with any rich soil? they just run out of gas over time but you can always replenish the nutrients with root tabs, fish poop, dry ferts etc....


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
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It has to be true that if you remove something from anything, the anything has to eventually run out of the something. Did Einstein say this first???

The real question is about how long it takes for the depletion to be significant. My impression was that Aquasoil would be good for a few years, not just one year. I would never pay that much for a substrate knowing I would need to replace it in a year if I wanted to keep the same plant growing qualities, and plant growing qualities are the only reason I would be buying it. If I have to replenish the nutrients why not just use pool filter sand? Much better economics.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
It has to be true that if you remove something from anything, the anything has to eventually run out of the something. Did Einstein say this first???

The real question is about how long it takes for the depletion to be significant. My impression was that Aquasoil would be good for a few years, not just one year. I would never pay that much for a substrate knowing I would need to replace it in a year if I wanted to keep the same plant growing qualities, and plant growing qualities are the only reason I would be buying it. If I have to replenish the nutrients why not just use pool filter sand? Much better economics.

I agree any of the inert stuff (pool filter sand, sms, turface) works just as well with the proper fert regiment so it comes down to if you want the exact substrate and ferts that he uses or do you want to stay in the less expensive group.

I haven't tried the ADA products yet tho once we are in the new house and my fish room is complete I'll setup a 10gal with it just to see what all the hipe is about.

- Brad
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 09:32 PM
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If I have to replenish the nutrients why not just use pool filter sand? Much better economics.
Well, I think we are getting ripped off of a degree when it come to ADA... But I'm sure the Cation Exchange capacity is key (sand isn't that great). If you replenish the substrate it could last a long time.


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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 09:49 PM
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I have been using the same Aquasoil for about 2years now in my 10G set-up. I just added a thin layer of new Aquasoil to the existing layer in my latest layout to prevent it from sending up a dust cloud of sediments when I fill it. I haven't seen any change in the growth pattern or loss of nutrients than normal yet. I still follow the same dosing which I did when I did the first set up about 2 years back.

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 11:26 PM
 
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I have been using the same Aquasoil for about 2years now in my 10G set-up. I just added a thin layer of new Aquasoil to the existing layer in my latest layout to prevent it from sending up a dust cloud of sediments when I fill it. I haven't seen any change in the growth pattern or loss of nutrients than normal yet. I still follow the same dosing which I did when I did the first set up about 2 years back.
I am not surprised. Tom Barr recommends water column dosing with any nutrient rich substrate like ADA AS to extend the life expectancy of the substrate. And yeah this can be done with any substrate so what are the benefits of ADA AS over pool filter sand, fluorite or schultz aquatic soil? IME, with all things being equal(c02 and light intensity) and water column dosing found that tanks more quickly achieved balance(4-6 weeks) in my ADA AS based tanks than in tanks where I used fluorite or schultz aquatic soil(6-12 months). So is ADA AS worth the expense?? IMHO and IME if you have the patience to wait for good algae free plant growth, then save your money and stick to pool filter sand, sms, fluorite or schultz aquatic soil. If you are impatient and looking for fast algae free plant growth fast assuming all other things are equal, then you will benefit from paying the extra for the ADA AS. Also, IME, nothing beats ADA AS if you want a good substrate to start an emersed setup.

This is an interesting discussion and raises the question as to why some people who set up tanks using mineralized topsoil and who do not dose anything other than potassium find that their plants continue to do well for 3+ years with no sign of substrate nutrient depletion, plant deficiency issues, or algae issues.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-08-2009, 11:35 PM
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I
This is an interesting discussion and raises the question as to why some people who set up tanks using mineralized topsoil and who do not dose anything other than potassium find that their plants continue to do well for 3+ years with no sign of substrate nutrient depletion, plant deficiency issues, or algae issues.
like el natural... fish poop.

But I doubt any system has no algae issues.


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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-09-2009, 12:18 AM
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16 months was how long that sediment ran..........

2 years is a typical time frame it seems.
AFA redoes theirs on this same time frame.
ADA Ps also adds a lot of water column ferts initially.


It stands to reason, adding KNO3 etc, as I've argued for about 4 years now, is similar to adding the ADA PS.

Water column or the sediment.
Does not matter there.

Some find that sediment dosing is easier, no argument there.
But you still have to add CO2, and some fish food, traces etc as well during that time.......so you really are not getting away from labor/work etc in any significant way.

Adding sediment + water column (ADA, MS etc all do this a bit more or less, just they run things more lean in the water column, not sure why, perhaps fear or dogma or marketing/perception?) is what I've been doing, we all do to some extent.

If you add a longer term depot of nutrients, then it will have a limited life span and taper off over time. ADA As still does have some nutrients.............even 1-2-3 years later, just not as much as the first few months.

CEC sounds nice and plays some role, but it's not as significant I think as some believe and speculate. We have not seen that this is the real issue, rather, the water column nutrients likely are taken up before CEC is locking nutrients away and then root uptake is occuring.

Everything is coming in from the water column above.
Leaves will have ACCESS FIRST.

It's a good product(ADA AS).

I like it and still use it.
A DIY version is the delta clay we use.
Or the various threads supporting mineralized soil.

Pre washing/soaking for a couple of weeks leaches the NH4.
ADA AS has a few weeks worth of leaching of the NH4 out itself..........

So how do you add and remove when you have fish in the tank?
2ppm of NH4 is not a good idea for the fish.........

I've done it and the effects on fish where no pretty. I did large daily water changes and added zeolite(10 lbs!) to control the issue.

I'd not suggest doing much in the swap.

Get a trash can, run your filter on that and add the fish there for 2-3 weeks.
Break tank down entirely, clean , rescape and add new ADA AS.

A year is enough time to look at a design for many.
Up to you really.

If you do not wanna deal with it, Black Flourite is a good option.
Or you can do the spot enrichment methods:

Mud cubes(frozen MS), or clay balls of ADA AS, added under specific plants.


Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
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