BAKING mineralized soil? - The Planted Tank Forum
 1Likes
  • 2 Post By plantbrain
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 01:09 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 723
BAKING mineralized soil?

I am setting up a new tank and want to try mineralized soil.
Life would be great if i could use the HOT summer fresno sun to dry out my soil but it isnt really an option at this time as i have been having all kinds of rain lately. so currently my weather is not conducive to drying out mineralized soil outside and i really want to have this all together in less than a couple weeks.


Can i bake it in the oven at 140F? or does this interfere with the mineralizing process?

Discus, (The Other White Meat.)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 02:40 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
metageologist's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mannsville NY
Posts: 794
i used to bake soil samples in the lab at 140 to remove all water to determind dry weight and oganic content so i would say that 140 wont alter the mineral composition

GEOLOGY Rocks Have A Gneiss Day
metageologist is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 04:29 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,015
If you are married, I think you would want to offer the wife/husband a nice restaurant meal for a couple of consecutive nights after doing the baking. I don't believe this would be an odorless operation.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
If you are married, I think you would want to offer the wife/husband a nice restaurant meal for a couple of consecutive nights after doing the baking. I don't believe this would be an odorless operation.
It will be alright.

I think that i am going to start this in the next couple of days. I can use foil baking pans, i have the big ones that are about 24x12 and 4" deep so that means less of a mess to clean up, they are disposable. One thing that puts me off a bit is that i need enough soil for a 125 so i am glad that i have 2 ovens that i can run simultaniously.

Discus, (The Other White Meat.)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 11:33 AM
Planted Tank VIP
 
Gatekeeper's Avatar
 
PTrader: (96/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Earth
Posts: 6,628
I seem to recall reading about this in that big mineralized soil thread, I don't think it helps the process. The drying of the soil allows the time for the bacteria to break down the soil into its "goodness". Just drying it does not do that from what I understand.

I could be wrong though


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Gatekeeper is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 02:08 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
EdwardN's Avatar
 
PTrader: (25/96%)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deltona, Florida
Posts: 518
Smile

One can bake soil to sterilize it. As an indicator how long to bake it, put a medium size potato in it, and when potato is done, then this is sufficient time to achieve the purpose. You have to aerate it afterwards for a couple of days, otherwise it will be toxic....

To dry soil, spread it onto something flat and use fan to blow along that surface. Work it up every so often and you can be surprised how fast it dries without killing everything in it. Expose to wind would do the job also.

Good luck.
EdwardN is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmccreedy View Post
I seem to recall reading about this in that big mineralized soil thread, I don't think it helps the process. The drying of the soil allows the time for the bacteria to break down the soil into its "goodness". Just drying it does not do that from what I understand.

I could be wrong though
See i Thought that i had read something about that before but then couldnt think logically how it would be different drying it in an oven vs. outside or naturally. Now i can believe that the amount of time that the soil is allowed to dry is probably a signifigant factor. anyhow i think that since i need to create about 100 pounds of this stuff it may be much easier to do it outside. otherwise i would be literally baking mud pies for days.

Discus, (The Other White Meat.)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DiscusIt'sWhats4DinneR is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 03:27 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,015
The mineralizing process includes soaking for a few days, followed by drying, then repeat that cycle a couple or three more times. So, even if you can accelerate the drying you still have to spend the time soaking it. I'm not sure if baking at a high temperature converts organic compounds to inorganic ones - does anyone know?

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 04:59 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
EdwardN's Avatar
 
PTrader: (25/96%)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deltona, Florida
Posts: 518
Smile

Hippy, I pretty much covered the subject in my post above. You will wind up with a lot of ammonia and other toxic compounds (depending on soil content), not to mention about killing all the beneficial microflora and microfauna.

Air movement, whether artifical, or natural is all one need in this respect.

And works faster then you would expect!
EdwardN is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-23-2009, 11:10 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
milesm's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: HI
Posts: 711
i thought that baking actually liberates the ammonia, not generate more.
milesm is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 02:59 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
this sounds like so much trouble..why not just buy aquasoil or flourite?

Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 05:19 PM
Are these real?
 
Wasserpest's Avatar
 
PTrader: (194/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 15,612
OMG Hubba is back excavating old threads.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Wasserpest is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 05:36 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardN View Post
Hippy, I pretty much covered the subject in my post above. You will wind up with a lot of ammonia and other toxic compounds (depending on soil content), not to mention about killing all the beneficial microflora and microfauna.

Air movement, whether artifical, or natural is all one need in this respect.

And works faster then you would expect!
You mean less NH4, not more.

Heat/burning oxidizes, this does not reduce.
NH4 is reduced, NO3 is oxidized N.

Excess reduced Carbon can drain O2 and reduce too much, so cooking it, boiling or baking can rapidly oxidize soil.

I'd do it about 400F for an hour, but boiling for 10-15 minutes would be best I think and less stank.

Same method is used for Worm castings to remove excess NH4, this is old old news over a decade of usage, bacteria will simply recolonize quickly thereafter, plant roots etc are loaded with bacteria.

You can do it via bacterial oxidation or thermal oxidation. End result is the same.

If you really want to promote the bacterial goodness, then a Dry start method that links oxidizing bacteria + real roots of plants would be far superior. Because once you pull the MTS and disturb the layers of bacteria, this disrupts the bacterial zonation. This must re establish once you add it back to the tank after the mineralization process. DSM does not require this and also links the bacteria to the roots specifically from day one of the tank being flooded with water. If you plant later, you still have some disturbance, whereas there is none with DSM.

DSM also takes 4-8 weeks before flooding, so no time is really lost waiting, since you wait for the MTS a few weeks anyway. Plant roots also add much more O2 to the soil than MTS alone might. This means the bacterial zonation and colonies are more stable and higher densities.

So if you are in a rush, boiling it, or you wanna do the "natural" methods, the DSM is much better if you want to use soil for planted tanks for mineralization.



Monrankim and Monrankim like this.

Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-14-2016, 07:52 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Miami
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
The mineralizing process includes soaking for a few days, followed by drying, then repeat that cycle a couple or three more times. So, even if you can accelerate the drying you still have to spend the time soaking it. I'm not sure if baking at a high temperature converts organic compounds to inorganic ones - does anyone know?
yes It does and quicker than bacteria. However sometimes the products are not the same ( because the method to oxidize are different the result can be different) but for ammonia and organic matter they all finish in nitrate and CO2 mainly .
A way in science or food technology to find the amount of minerals an edible item has is to bake it at high temp ( 500 Celcium 900 F)
everything burns(oxidize, evaporate etc) and only you keep the ashes
The difference in the weight before and after is the amount of minerals a food has.
With soil I dont think you need to go all the way to minerals only but baking for some time at 200 F it eliminates a lot of stuff you dont want.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubbahehe View Post
this sounds like so much trouble..why not just buy aquasoil or flourite?
because is freaking expensive
ernest is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome