Fluorite: black vs onyx vs sand EDIT: Ordered Aquasoil... - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 02:54 AM Thread Starter
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Fluorite: black vs onyx vs sand EDIT: Ordered Aquasoil...

I'm confused... please clarify if you can. I'm looking to replace the nightmarish SMS charcoal in my 46 bow with another black substrate. I've had pretty good results with the regular old red fluorite so... I'm assuming that the fluorite black is the same as the red, how does the fluorite black compare to the fluorite black sand? How does the fluorite black sand compare to the onyx sand? Is one better then the other for plants? Is the copper content a concern for any shrimp? I had thousands of red cherry shrimp with fluorite but all or my crystals died in it/// could this have been the cause? Now I'm getting off topic... thanks

Dan O

46g bowfront, BML 6300K, Black fluorite, Filstar XP3, pressurized Co2, Milwaukee reg & SMS122, AM 1000

5g 36W 6700K, flourite, ZooMed 501, DIY Hagen Co2 & bubble ladder

Last edited by otter; 02-13-2009 at 05:33 PM. Reason: new details
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 03:03 AM
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Flourite and Flourite Black are not the same thing. Their composition is very different. Not suprisingly, the iron content in original Flourite is far greater than any of the other Flourite substrates.

You make a trade off for color. If you are interested in black, I would go with either the Flourite Black or Black Sand. Onyx is more charcoal than black. It's darker than SMS, but not as black as Black and Black Sand.

Other than that, it's just up to you on how fine you want the substrate.


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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 03:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhart View Post
Flourite and Flourite Black are not the same thing. Their composition is very different. Not suprisingly, the iron content in original Flourite is far greater than any of the other Flourite substrates.

You make a trade off for color. If you are interested in black, I would go with either the Flourite Black or Black Sand. Onyx is more charcoal than black. It's darker than SMS, but not as black as Black and Black Sand.

Other than that, it's just up to you on how fine you want the substrate.
Thanks... wow you're right about the iron content.. red has 18500 mg vs 4388 for the black, the onyx sand has 2846, but also the lowest copper content 4 vs 17 for all of the other varieties. Another question, why "not surprisingly"? I was surprised!

Dan O

46g bowfront, BML 6300K, Black fluorite, Filstar XP3, pressurized Co2, Milwaukee reg & SMS122, AM 1000

5g 36W 6700K, flourite, ZooMed 501, DIY Hagen Co2 & bubble ladder
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Another question, why "not surprisingly"? I was surprised!

As a general guideline, when things in nature are red/orange/brown, it's a safe guess that they have a higher iron content.

I figured this, but it was interesting when I looked it up and saw just how much more iron is in flourite compared to the others.


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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 03:17 AM
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I'm skeptical of how bio-available the compounds in the different seachems are. Reading the mineral composition, it seems like onyx would be great for invert tanks, having low iron and high Mg.

That's if these things leach out into the water.


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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 03:19 AM Thread Starter
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They should make this easier to find on the Seachem website!
[IMG][/IMG]

Dan O

46g bowfront, BML 6300K, Black fluorite, Filstar XP3, pressurized Co2, Milwaukee reg & SMS122, AM 1000

5g 36W 6700K, flourite, ZooMed 501, DIY Hagen Co2 & bubble ladder
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 03:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhart View Post
As a general guideline, when things in nature are red/orange/brown, it's a safe guess that they have a higher iron content.
.
Good point.. sometimes obvious things escape me!

Dan O

46g bowfront, BML 6300K, Black fluorite, Filstar XP3, pressurized Co2, Milwaukee reg & SMS122, AM 1000

5g 36W 6700K, flourite, ZooMed 501, DIY Hagen Co2 & bubble ladder
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 03:20 AM
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It's on the bottom of the page for all the planted tank substrates:


http://www.seachem.com/support/Grave...omposition.pdf

Pretty useful

I feel like, from a marketing standpoint, they should do a better job of explaining the different products. As it is, you see a bunch of different substrates, can't see a clear winner, and then therefore think there must be something wrong with all of them.

A better explanation I think would sell more, but maybe that's just me.

*I also think ADA should give a more clear explanation of the differences between Amazonia and Amazonia II


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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 03:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhart View Post
It's on the bottom of the page for all the planted tank substrates:


http://www.seachem.com/support/Grave...omposition.pdf

Pretty useful

I feel like, from a marketing standpoint, they should do a better job of explaining the different products. As it is, you see a bunch of different substrates, can't see a clear winner, and then therefore think there must be something wrong with all of them.

A better explanation I think would sell more, but maybe that's just me.

*I also think ADA should give a more clear explanation of the differences between Amazonia and Amazonia II
hmmm... I don't see a link to the chart there... I go to seachem.com, gravel, planted substrates and scroll to the bottom... nothing... I found it in a FAQ

Dan O

46g bowfront, BML 6300K, Black fluorite, Filstar XP3, pressurized Co2, Milwaukee reg & SMS122, AM 1000

5g 36W 6700K, flourite, ZooMed 501, DIY Hagen Co2 & bubble ladder
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmhart View Post
It's on the bottom of the page for all the planted tank substrates:


http://www.seachem.com/support/Grave...omposition.pdf

Pretty useful

I feel like, from a marketing standpoint, they should do a better job of explaining the different products. As it is, you see a bunch of different substrates, can't see a clear winner, and then therefore think there must be something wrong with all of them.

A better explanation I think would sell more, but maybe that's just me.

*I also think ADA should give a more clear explanation of the differences between Amazonia and Amazonia II
ABSOLUTELY! It's a second full-time job trying to research this stuff! I'm thinking I should tackle compiling information on all the commercially available substrates and get samples and make a definitive sticky... as long as I'm doing the research... as long as you mentioned it, I was going to ask that question as well... What is the difference between the Amazonia and the Amazonia II?

Dan O

46g bowfront, BML 6300K, Black fluorite, Filstar XP3, pressurized Co2, Milwaukee reg & SMS122, AM 1000

5g 36W 6700K, flourite, ZooMed 501, DIY Hagen Co2 & bubble ladder
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otter View Post
hmmm... I don't see a link to the chart there... I go to seachem.com, gravel, planted substrates and scroll to the bottom... nothing... I found it in a FAQ

Beats me. I purchased about a dozen bags a while back, been sitting in my storage room ever since. Waiting to move(long store) before setting up a new tank(180g).

Point is, never used AS. Dude an Aqua Forest ran down the difference for me, asked me about my source water, and suggested Amazonia


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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 04:38 AM
 
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Quote:
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... What is the difference between the Amazonia and the Amazonia II?
ADA Amazonia is recommended where the base water is alkaline which would translate to 7.5 PH or higher. Anything neutral(7 PH) and lower, original ADA Amazonia is recommended.

However, folks have had many issues(ongoing cloudiness and premature breakdown) with ADA AS II and one supplier will no longer carry it.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...azonia-ii.html

I would recommend original ADA Aquasoil regardless of whether your water is alkaline or not.

My understanding is that Seachem Onyx Sand will also buffer your PH to a higher PH level unlike regular fluorite or fluorite sand. Some folks don't like this. Personally, I have found no issues. I have a low tech 5 gallon tank where I used Seachem Onyx Sand as recommended by Tom Barr and the plants are growing well, with no major issues.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer_Simpson View Post
ADA Amazonia is recommended where the base water is alkaline which would translate to 7.5 PH or higher. Anything neutral(7 PH) and lower, original ADA Amazonia is recommended.
Thanks, for clarification, it's Amazonia II for alkaline water?

Dan O

46g bowfront, BML 6300K, Black fluorite, Filstar XP3, pressurized Co2, Milwaukee reg & SMS122, AM 1000

5g 36W 6700K, flourite, ZooMed 501, DIY Hagen Co2 & bubble ladder
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 05:08 PM
 
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Thanks, for clarification, it's Amazonia II for alkaline water?
You are welcome and yes, according to to ADA ADA AS II is for use with alkaline water only. For the record, I have not many of the major issues(instant disintegration of the substrate, ongoing cloudiness, etc.,) that others have had with ADA Aquasoil II, but given that so many people are having issues, my guess is that there are probably lots of bad bags of ADA AS II floating around, so for any future tanks I would stick to original ADA Aquasoil regardless of whether I have alkaline(my water tests neutral out of the tap) or not. When you pay so much for a substate, it is just too big a risk to use ADA AS II only to find it self destructs on you.

Last edited by Homer_Simpson; 02-12-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 02-12-2009, 09:21 PM
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I've got Onyx sand in my 10gal RCS colony and I think this might just be my fav tank...

If you want to save some $$, get Seachem's marine tidal gray (in the SW section of LFSs, usually)- it's exactly the same as Onyx sand just usually a whole lot cheaper.





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