Substrate Nutrient Chart - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-2008, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
Aroid Addict
 
legomaniac89's Avatar
 
PTrader: (76/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Elkhart, IN
Posts: 3,493
Substrate Nutrient Chart

The following link has a list of nearly all of the popular gravels used as substrates in planted aquariums. Each substrate is broken down to show you exactly how much of each nutrient, macro and micro, is in each. I found this to be very helpful in many places.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/article...ates_chart.php
legomaniac89 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-2008, 09:05 PM
Fresh Fish Freak
 
lauraleellbp's Avatar
 
PTrader: (70/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 24,403
Wow that's pretty impressive- very comprehensive! Thanks for sharing!

You might want to post this in the "other websites" forum, too?





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Next meeting Monday, Oct 13, 2014 @ 7:15pm- See ya there!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lauraleellbp is offline  
post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-2008, 10:27 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
That's Jamie's, the APD had it posted some years ago and on the Krib, it's pretty much public info.

However, there are some basic issues with how folks seem to measure and interpret the table.

1. The concentration does not take into account bioavailable nutrients at all. And if the plant root, or leaf cannot get at it, it really does not matter how much is there or not.

So as far as plant growth, the table is of little use.
What you need is extractable nutrient content and pore water samples.
You still do not know how fast the nutrients are able to respond to dramatic uptake, and are they able to leach out fast enough to keep up with plant growth demands.

It's not so simple as a table.

An example is sand, SiO2, the Si and the O2 are not very available to you, to a plant or algae.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
 
post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-16-2008, 11:18 PM
Fresh Fish Freak
 
lauraleellbp's Avatar
 
PTrader: (70/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 24,403
Tom, do you know of a good article/other online resource that compares the bioavailable nutrient content of various substrates?

I suppose water column chemistry could factor in as well...





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Next meeting Monday, Oct 13, 2014 @ 7:15pm- See ya there!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lauraleellbp is offline  
post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-19-2008, 10:08 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraleellbp View Post
Tom, do you know of a good article/other online resource that compares the bioavailable nutrient content of various substrates?

I suppose water column chemistry could factor in as well...


Which is why this table isn't too bad for a starting point. It gives a base idea of what minerals are going to be present in the substrate. Bioavailability depends on so many different variables that you cannot place it on a chart like Tom said, but at the same time, you can make an educated guess based upon your current water chemistry.
jwarper is offline  
post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-19-2008, 10:57 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by lauraleellbp View Post
Tom, do you know of a good article/other online resource that compares the bioavailable nutrient content of various substrates?
You funny Haha

No, sorry, only for soils.

You need to do the entire table again with different agricultural analysis, not elemental analysis. I've done it for ADA Powersand and Aqua soil as well as delta clays mud sediments.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-19-2008, 11:01 PM
Fresh Fish Freak
 
lauraleellbp's Avatar
 
PTrader: (70/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 24,403
Seems strange to me as long as this hobby has been around that no one has done that... Maybe we should look up a UF ag grad student looking for a final project?





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Next meeting Monday, Oct 13, 2014 @ 7:15pm- See ya there!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lauraleellbp is offline  
post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-19-2008, 11:24 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwarper View Post
Which is why this table isn't too bad for a starting point. It gives a base idea of what minerals are going to be present in the substrate. Bioavailability depends on so many different variables that you cannot place it on a chart like Tom said, but at the same time, you can make an educated guess based upon your current water chemistry.
No, not really even worth a starting point for that. CEC helps and that's the most useful parameter on there. The rest really does not say much except atoms.

Tourmaline is a classic wonky new age mixed with "some one is Asia is doing, it must be good" aquaschisters.

It has lots of plant nutrients at the elemental state, but they are essentially totally unavailable for plant growth. Bottom line= does not do squat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourmaline

Perhaps we should add diamonds as a carbon source also.........?

Think about it..........Borosilicate glass..........not exactly the type of stuff that dissolves too easily. It has to dissolve at a decent rate and under the specific conditions in a wetland sediment.

I suppose if you waited a few million years the glass in your tanks would dissolve too.

When comparing sediments, you need to ask the relevant biological question.
Jamie's overview did not address much except CEC and elemental composition. pH is semi useful but not without Redox and under submersed conditions.

Redox and organic matter, and bioavailable N, P, K+ etc, these are the parameters that affect growth.

Folks see something like this and think it must mean something and is useful for comparing growth. You have to be careful about what it is measuring.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-20-2008, 09:14 PM
Fresh Fish Freak
 
lauraleellbp's Avatar
 
PTrader: (70/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 24,403
Bioavailability of nutrients aside, this is a good writeup comparison of different subatrates (by the same person?)

http://home.infinet.net/teban/jamie.htm





To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Next meeting Monday, Oct 13, 2014 @ 7:15pm- See ya there!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
lauraleellbp is offline  
post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 03-21-2008, 04:06 PM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 34
Tom,

What about the soils, loams, and clays on the list? Won't those have more soluablity than the other harder carbon based substrates? Theres a lot of apples and oranges on that list in my oppinion.
jwarper is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome