What is considered a 'rich' substrate? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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What is considered a 'rich' substrate?

I've read sword plants require a rich substrate but there are so many kinds... So what is 'rich'?

one with just laterlite and gravel? or with potting soil? or with schultz aquatic soil?

thanks.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 09:32 PM
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My experience with sword plants is that they do just fine with water column fertilizing. I grew a few which got far too big for my tank, in Soilmaster, with no root fertilizing, and with EI fertilizing and CO2 injection.

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistergreen View Post
I've read sword plants require a rich substrate but there are so many kinds... So what is 'rich'?

one with just laterlite and gravel? or with potting soil? or with schultz aquatic soil?

thanks.
To answer your question of what is a rich substrate. Aquasoil has the most nutrients of them all. But, you don't need aquasoil to grow swords.


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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 10:14 PM
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ADA is a rich substrate. but only cause it costs so much you have to be rich to use it. lol. ok sorry..

Seriously. none of the substrates are going to be horribly great for swords and reguardless of what one you get you would probably just want to get some root tabs to supplement what you are feeding.
I have swords in my tank with eco. and they actually sent roots into the water collum to pull nutrients that way. this tells me that ECO is worthless.
and I can't imagine any of the others can be much better.
So get whatever fits your pocket book and pick up some Seachem root tabs.


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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-26-2006, 11:02 PM
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ADA is a rich substrate. but only cause it costs so much you have to be rich to use it. lol. ok sorry..

Seriously. none of the substrates are going to be horribly great for swords and reguardless of what one you get you would probably just want to get some root tabs to supplement what you are feeding.
I have swords in my tank with eco. and they actually sent roots into the water collum to pull nutrients that way. this tells me that ECO is worthless.
and I can't imagine any of the others can be much better.
So get whatever fits your pocket book and pick up some Seachem root tabs.
ADA will not cost anymore than the comparable amount of eco-complete, flourite or onyx sand. The ADA bags are almost twice as big as a bag or eco, flourite or onyx. Any of these substrates however will be a lot more than either turface or soil master.


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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 01:12 AM
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ADA will not cost anymore than the comparable amount of eco-complete, flourite or onyx sand. The ADA bags are almost twice as big as a bag or eco, flourite or onyx. Any of these substrates however will be a lot more than either turface or soil master.


Nah man, youre wrong,I heard from a guy who heard from his friend who saw online at a forum that the ada stuff doesnt work that well and you still have to dose ferts and it costs wayyy more than sand and that its not that good. Oh yea and their scissors are really just 99 cent scissors rebadged as ada. Im never going to try it, since thats what I heard. Plus, look at Amano, its not like his tank are that great or that he contributed what can be considered the largest body of aquatic plant layout design in the world to the plant tank plant hobby or anything like that.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
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I've read on this forum that some people put peat moss on the bottom of the substrate... What's the benefit besides soften/lowering the PH?
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2006, 02:01 AM
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Nah man, youre wrong,I heard from a guy who heard from his friend who saw online at a forum that the ada stuff doesnt work that well and you still have to dose ferts and it costs wayyy more than sand and that its not that good. Oh yea and their scissors are really just 99 cent scissors rebadged as ada. Im never going to try it, since thats what I heard. Plus, look at Amano, its not like his tank are that great or that he contributed what can be considered the largest body of aquatic plant layout design in the world to the plant tank plant hobby or anything like that.
ROFLMAO.

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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksunshine View Post
ADA is a rich substrate. but only cause it costs so much you have to be rich to use it. lol. ok sorry..

Seriously. none of the substrates are going to be horribly great for swords and reguardless of what one you get you would probably just want to get some root tabs to supplement what you are feeding.
I have swords in my tank with eco. and they actually sent roots into the water collum to pull nutrients that way. this tells me that ECO is worthless.
and I can't imagine any of the others can be much better.
So get whatever fits your pocket book and pick up some Seachem root tabs.
Very little of this post is true. Like Ian said, AS is a great deal compared to other commerical substrates. And I'm sure AS is great for swords. What do you know about swords anyway? They aren't picky by any stretch, and will quickly outgrow most tanks. My Kleiner Bar got huge in only Onyx Sand, which is basically nutrient devoid.

Oh, and nutrients in the water column are in the substrate. They do mix. Why is everyone convinced that the substrate and water column are two different zones that never interact?

Lots of plants send out roots that way. Crypts do it too. And this was old Fluorite substrate filled with mulm and organic matter. Probably quite a rich substrate. Seachem Root Tabs actually contain very little in the way of macronutrients, mostly micros.

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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-02-2007, 09:13 AM
 
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A rich substrate has a great amound of CEC and micronutrient. This makes excess nutrients in the watercolum less of a problem due to the CEC and should minimize algae.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-03-2007, 07:40 PM
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my sword takes over my tank with sand, same deal when I had regular gravel. I use root tabs and dose the water column as well as inject Co2, the only thing in my sand besides root tabs is fish poo and old food. Tonina sp. belem also grows like mad in my tank, I've yet to find a reason to run out and buy overpriced substrate, but that's just my experience.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-03-2007, 11:32 PM
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Very little of this post is true. Like Ian said, AS is a great deal compared to other commerical substrates. And I'm sure AS is great for swords. What do you know about swords anyway? They aren't picky by any stretch, and will quickly outgrow most tanks. My Kleiner Bar got huge in only Onyx Sand, which is basically nutrient devoid.

Oh, and nutrients in the water column are in the substrate. They do mix. Why is everyone convinced that the substrate and water column are two different zones that never interact?

Lots of plants send out roots that way. Crypts do it too. And this was old Fluorite substrate filled with mulm and organic matter. Probably quite a rich substrate. Seachem Root Tabs actually contain very little in the way of macronutrients, mostly micros.
I'm sorry if you feel my post was untrue. I was only posting from my personal experiance..

As to the rest of your post in response to my post..

Your right wtf do I know about tank keeping or swords. I've only been doin it for a couple decades.. I'm sure my low post count may have misled you.
then maybe you just didn't notice that the first sentence of my post was in jest. Hence the LOL at the end and the begginning of the next sentence being "Seriously" And Seriously you take yourself to serious.

I'm sure ADA is just fine for Swords. They are after all one of the easiest things to grow. And whats wrong with Seachem tabs being mostly micro they do need mocros to grow as well.


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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2007, 02:03 AM
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Post count has nothing to do with this. I respect many members with a low post count. It means nothing. An example would be VITARTE or whitepine. Extremely knowledgable folk.

Nothing is wrong with Seachem tabs. However, I'm not convinced that they would be a huge boost if micros are already everywhere in the water column. Micronutrients are just that, they aren't needed in large amounts, and I'm certainly not convinced they need to be supplied in the substrate, especially since every Echinodorus spp. I've ever had has been nothing but invasive and ever growing.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2007, 03:37 AM
 
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I've grown swords in eco before, and once they outgrew my 25g tall I removed them and in the process of doing so I uprooted allmost every other plant in the tank. The swords were in there for such a long time that their roots had spanned the whole substrate bed.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2007, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by jaidexl View Post
my sword takes over my tank with sand, same deal when I had regular gravel. I use root tabs and dose the water column as well as inject Co2, the only thing in my sand besides root tabs is fish poo and old food. Tonina sp. belem also grows like mad in my tank, I've yet to find a reason to run out and buy overpriced substrate, but that's just my experience.
Id like to see a pic of that tank and all that belem. Whats the specs on the tank? What kind of root tabs?
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