Super deep substrates: How does Amano do it? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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Super deep substrates: How does Amano do it?

I am perplexed on how Amano keeps his substrates happy. I've seen enough videos of him pouring in bags upon bags of aquasoil up to depths of 12+". How do these depths not go anaerobic?
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post #2 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 04:56 PM
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Mts?
that was weird, it didn't let me capitalize the whole thing o_O
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post #3 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 05:06 PM
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Its definitely not MTS. It is limited or it should be limited to lower depths. The deeper the substrate the higher compact risk which creates anaerobic bacteria. Not good. AS is different, it allows better water flow than other substrates. Its probably the highest cost substrate out there but I hear nothing but good stuff about it. If you think about it, its not much more than Eco lb per lb.

I have asked on the depth subject in a few post on the MTS thread recently and some other thread. Pretty useful info. Check it out. You could use something underneath the substrate to give it height first and then go with your finer planting substrate. The few suggestions I got was eggcrate structures, lava rock and chick grit. My intent is to save money on substrate. Especially with the large footprint tank I am planning. If your not using AS you will want to be alot more cautious on your depth.
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post #4 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 05:12 PM
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All you have to do is buy all of the Ada substrate and bacterias then get a few people to put it into containers ect for you and pour it in. Then you must take down the tank every 6-24 months and re do the display. Simple!!!

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post #5 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 05:17 PM Thread Starter
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I have seen the same suggestions of using eggcrate or something to build up a false floor. I have given that some thought, but that adds in more issues with setting up the tank than it solves. I think he uses Power Sand-L as a base layer in these big tanks, I guess this could act along the lines of lava rock to help prevent compaction (I think the L is fairly chunky). I hope someone like Frank could help and weigh in on this, as I have not a clue and am only guessing.
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post #6 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 05:18 PM
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CatB might be referring to MTS as in Malaysian Trumpet Snails. They can help keep a deep substrate stirred up and aerated. Although I don't recall ever seeing snails in Amano tanks. They would be hard to see in tanks of that size though.
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post #7 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 05:25 PM
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Basically, Amano's tanks aren't set up long enough to go anaerobic.

To be perfectly honest, it's kind of like how not everyone gets to drive concept cars.
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post #8 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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I did have in the back of my mind the idea that he doesn't leave them setup long enough for this to be an issue...
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post #9 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flight50 View Post
If you think about it, its not much more than Eco lb per lb.
That's not entirely true. Here, a bag of AS is about $45. You can get a bag of EC for $17 from Petco.

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post #10 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 06:21 PM
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AS is so light, and the power sand is chunky so it allows water flow underneith.

Who has had anarobic pockets here? I had one in a tank with 5" of playsand and that wasn't poked or disturbed for a couple years. That's it in 14 years of planted tanks.


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post #11 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 06:29 PM
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Some believe that as soon as Hydrogen sulfide makes contact with oxygen in the water that the gas is rendered harmless, but I wonder if creatures near the bottom, or bottom dwelling fishes, would not be affected more readily as oxygen at lower levels would maybe not be as high as that near the surface?
I am more inclined to place trumpet snails in deeper substrate tank's and poke at it occasionally.
I have sand tank's no deeper than two inches that have never been disturbed, and fishes,shrimps do well.
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post #12 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 06:30 PM
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I have them like crazy in my 29g. 1" of MGOCP, + 1" of aquarium sand. At least once per day i see bubbles pop up from the dirt layer, and boy do they smell nasty. My parameters are fine though, the fish actually seem to enjoy playing in them when they float up, so :shrug:
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post #13 of 49 (permalink) Old 05-31-2012, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei View Post
I did have in the back of my mind the idea that he doesn't leave them setup long enough for this to be an issue...
This.

There is alot of difference in someone looking to have an aquarium for keeping and growing and doing what alot of us normal folks do vs some of the high end scape's.

There are even folks that do scape's that dont have any fish in them til its time to take pictures then they get the fish toss them in and bang take breathtaking shots. But in reality its quite possible/probable that to get the scape the way they did the Co2 levels and such are so crazy high that fish wouldnt survive. So they kill it before adding fish add the fish and take the pics.

In fact I think ive seen Tom Barr mention this very thing. For alot of us this is not what keeping plants or fish is about. For most of us we keep them together and at all times. Its unfortunate I think cause it gives alot of unrealistic ideas. Im not knocking anyone or trying to down play. But I think its important for those of us doing real aquatic planted tanks with life in them to know what is actually what.

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post #14 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-01-2012, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaticfan View Post
... For alot of us this is not what keeping plants or fish is about.
Right. Amano is a concept designer. Most people here are aquarists. Different goals.

He creates coffee table books--not living, breathing, sustainable habitats.
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post #15 of 49 (permalink) Old 06-01-2012, 04:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PamAndJim View Post
CatB might be referring to MTS as in Malaysian Trumpet Snails. They can help keep a deep substrate stirred up and aerated. Although I don't recall ever seeing snails in Amano tanks. They would be hard to see in tanks of that size though.
yeah, that's what i meant, not mineralized topsoil. my bad.
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