Eco compleat not cool. - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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Eco compleat not cool.

So I was setting up a shrimp tank I wanted to just go to the store and pick up some substrate because the stuff I really wanted can not be found locally.

So I found some nice dark Eco compleat I love how it looks and it said should not mess with ph. Well that's WRONG. It brought my ph up a whole point.

How long till this stupid stuff stops bringing my ph up? Maybe I bought a bag that was miss packaged? Anyways I am not happy and I removing it today.

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100gal SA cichlid, Silver dollar, and delhezi. No plants!
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 06:39 PM
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took mine 3 water changes to stop leaching minerals from the soup it's packaged in.


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkndracer View Post
took mine 3 water changes to stop leaching minerals from the soup it's packaged in.
What do you mean by "soup"?

Don't many of the commonly used substrates cause ups and downs in one area or another for a short period of time?


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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 06:46 PM
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Just redid my 46g with it Friday and have had no issues. Granted, my ph already runs 8.2-8.4, so no where really for it to go! lol!
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 07:04 PM
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Watch out!

When you remove the EcoComplete, be careful, that stuff will scratch the hell out of your glass, ask me how I know!

-Drew
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
What do you mean by "soup"?

Don't many of the commonly used substrates cause ups and downs in one area or another for a short period of time?
EcoComp ships wet in a proprietary bend of ferts and bactors. (only sub I've purchased wet)
I no longer shop for the stuff and won't use it again.
soup = this ad gab
Containing essential nutrients, including iron, calcium, magnesium and sulfur in addition to over 25 other mineral supplements, CaribSea Eco Complete Planted Black Aquarium Substrate is the healthy choice for your aquarium plants and other aquatic life.

CaribSea Eco Complete contains a live Heterotrophic Bacteria, which is beneficial for sustaining a healthy aquatic environment as it helps to convert organic waste into a natural plant food.

I do not believe beyond 30 days anything is provided that simply using dry ferts would not provide even if used with inert blasting media alone as a substrate. The shift in pH I tested was using RO for tank water and was repeated on 2 setups.


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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 11:21 PM
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eco doe not raise pH. What likely happened is that the co2 gassed out of the water column.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-23-2012, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
took mine 3 water changes to stop leaching minerals from the soup it's packaged in.
That is rather ridiculous. Eco complete has no nutrient soup anything. It is simply packed in water for the live bacteria. All the minerals are in the gravel itself.

Quote:
When you remove the EcoComplete, be careful, that stuff will scratch the hell out of your glass, ask me how I know!
Yes, as will any gravel.

Quote:
I do not believe beyond 30 days anything is provided that simply using dry ferts would not provide even if used with inert blasting media alone as a substrate.
Your English here is a little hard to understand... but if I understand it right, you think clay gravel can't do any better at providing ferts than adding it to the water...??? And yet you think "dirt" is somehow better?

ECO COMPLETE ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT CLOUD YOUR WATER You do not rinse it, ever, at all.

I put Eco complete right out of the bag into an aquarium and added water, and PHOTOGRAPHED IT step by step. The water remained crystal clear. See for YOURSELF

As far as altering the pH, yes, most any substrate will to some extent, and I have never read comments from anyone else that this is a problem with Eco complete. Turface is much more alkaline.

Eco complete other than being a bit pricey, works GREAT.

Robert Paul Hudson

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:49 AM
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It's possible you guys got the remaining bags of the "bad batch" from a year or so ago. Had the same problem with mine just around that time - horrible Ph, a dead fish every couple days and a weird algae growing on the glass I couldn't find online for the life of me. Water changed out the yin-yang and it didn't help at all. Then, I read about folks who'd purchased EC then-recently and they were getting similar or the same results.

After basically wasting almost $100 on the substrate, I nuked the tank and went back to regular inert gravel with root tabs. Results of that are what you'd expect, but nowhere near the headaches I had with EC.

The longer I'm involved in this hobby the more & more I'm convinced that Bio-Type species tanks are the way to go. Plants and fish/inverts live together in nature for a reason. I find the less I try to fight nature the better my tanks look.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by krillkill View Post
eco doe not raise pH. What likely happened is that the co2 gassed out of the water column.
Using EcoComp in 2008 I didn't record any shifts. On 2 tanks in 2011 I indeed did in fact see it happen and scratched my head seeing it.
Tested twice to verify the results (noted it in the tank log). Checked the titration kits against standard too.
Played the tanking game long enough to see pH altered daily by CO2 in both directions. What happened was a buffer release into the water and it was a 2-3dKH rise twice and a 1dKH rise the last time. My tanking water is 100% RO with the mineral content established to known values. The only unaccounted contributor was the new substrate. I'm not the only one to note a rise in buffer using EcoComplete within the last 12 months. Forum search if you feel a need to validate it, I personally don't see it as that great an affront.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert H View Post
That is rather ridiculous. Eco complete has no nutrient soup anything. It is simply packed in water for the live bacteria. All the minerals are in the gravel itself.

Your English here is a little hard to understand... but if I understand it right, you think clay gravel can't do any better at providing ferts than adding it to the water...??? And yet you think "dirt" is somehow better?

ECO COMPLETE ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT CLOUD YOUR WATER You do not rinse it, ever, at all.

I put Eco complete right out of the bag into an aquarium and added water, and PHOTOGRAPHED IT step by step. The water remained crystal clear. See for YOURSELF

As far as altering the pH, yes, most any substrate will to some extent, and I have never read comments from anyone else that this is a problem with Eco complete. Turface is much more alkaline.

Eco complete other than being a bit pricey, works GREAT.
CaribSea makes the published statements about the product not me.
Within the short posts I made in this thread I never said clouding was an issue. Also all the EcoComp that I've used was directly applied without rinse or other preparation.

The bold text in my post is straight from the CaribSea listings on the product. So while my English on a reluctant response may be poor it's the claims by the company that are rather ridiculous (imo).

Using Flourite Original or CaribSea Eco Complete (either one) without supplements being applied with regularity to both the substrate and the water column have provided very poor results in my planted tanks.
The journals on those tanks contain the maintenance/dosing cycle used to gain plant growth. Flooded 5/9/2008 and 5/13/2008 neither were self supporting beyond 30days. Both require supplements. Neither will even grow common crypts without help. While the mileage of others may vary that is what I experienced on those tanks using the material AND still do. I dose on a regular schedule and achieve results I'm happy with. Without the scheduled dosing plant health suffers in short order so I don't see the substrate supporting the plants.

Characterizing Flourite Original I would describe as it a fired clay product as they indeed advertize it (crushed up brick).
CaribSea's Eco Complete appears more along the lines of a fine lava rock type material in appearance rather than a clay based product but honestly (IDK).
And again, without a scheduled dosing of ferts plant health suffers using either.

Tanks using potting soil as a base layer of substrate lasts years here for me without further additions and NO SCHEDULED DOSING. So yes I feel 'dirt' is better based on in my hands, seen by my eyes results. How long will these dirt tanks lasts? I don't know yet because the oldest is 3yrs wet and still growing plants whether it has 3 adult fish fed every other day or 25 young fish fed twice a day. I can't justify tearing it down because it requires almost no attention and confronts me with no drama. Rewarding me with stable, healthy plant growth year after year. With your knowledge of Walstad's methods and published works I'm somewhat shocked by you're challenge to the results it provides.

"Containing essential nutrients, including iron, calcium, magnesium and sulfur in addition to over 25 other mineral supplements," wow! jamb packed with goodies according to their claims.
"CaribSea Eco Complete contains a live Heterotrophic Bacteria"
How is this possible?
How does it survive months bagged and boxed on warehouse and store shelves?
I can't but wonder about this claim.

"Heterotrophic Bacteria, heterotrophic cells must ingest biomass to obtain their energy and nutrition."
http://www.bookrags.com/research/het...-bacteria-wmi/
http://thewatchers.us/Heterotrophic.html
http://www.oscarfish.com/article-hom...-bacteria.html


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Last edited by wkndracer; 01-24-2012 at 12:42 PM.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 05:27 AM
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I got 60lbs in my 40B with no ill effects
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 05:39 AM Thread Starter
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Well I took it out and after only being in the tank for 3 days I had lots of dust or muddy water. I have this same stuff in another tank and plants are happy fish and shrimp are doing great too. So I got a bad batch I guess. There should not be bad batches but whatever. I took it all out and will keep it in a bucket till it stops messing with the water.

I used half RO water when I was first filling the tank and also had peat moss as the first layer and in a filter. I have been doing ths same thing in another tank and my ph stays nice and low. So I was very suprised to see the ph rise and the bag clearly says WILL NOT raise ph.

Anyways I am going to just keep it in a buckect and use it as a layer or cap in another tank I guess.

80gal planted Angelfish community.
100gal SA cichlid, Silver dollar, and delhezi. No plants!
36 gal Planted Swordtail community.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-24-2012, 06:52 AM
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I used this in 2 tanks and pH was fine. You probably just got a bad bag or something.
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