Flourite vs Eco Complete? - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-21-2020, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by WaterWelder View Post
...Since you're planning on injecting CO2, are you dead set on aqua soil? You won't need any of the carbon from decaying organic compounds...
Not sure I understand, what carbon and what benefit are you referring to?


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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-21-2020, 07:24 PM
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Not sure I understand, what carbon and what benefit are you referring to?

When you inject CO2, depending on how much you want to use it, you no longer need to create CO2 by allowing organic compounds to decompose. It really frees up substrate choices by not having to have an organically rich substrate that you rely on to create your CO2. If youíre cool with a fertilizing regimen youíre good to go. Which is not to say that aqua soil isnít still beneficial, but if the choice you have is basically inert with a low CEC anyway, thereís no reason not to go with whatever you find most aesthetically pleasing at a lower price point.


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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-21-2020, 08:19 PM
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When you inject CO2, depending on how much you want to use it, you no longer need to create CO2 by allowing organic compounds to decompose. It really frees up substrate choices by not having to have an organically rich substrate that you rely on to create your CO2. If youíre cool with a fertilizing regimen youíre good to go. Which is not to say that aqua soil isnít still beneficial, but if the choice you have is basically inert with a low CEC anyway, thereís no reason not to go with whatever you find most aesthetically pleasing at a lower price point.

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Other than dirt organic potting mix, etc.), there really isn't any discernible co2 produced from active soils, like ADA, Landen, Tropica etc. This has been born out by thousands upon thousands of setups. Even if your using dirt your only generating a small amount maybe 5-8ppm so your still limited in what you can grow. Co2 tanks generally run 20-40ppm.
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-22-2020, 02:14 PM
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Just when Eco was getting some love, a complete takedown

Not defending Eco, but is there definite proof that nothing is extracted by the plant roots from the eco. Certainly not complete in any stretch of the imagination just wondered if it is completely (pun intended) inert.
First off I should state that I pretty much consider flourite and EC to be the same thing. Once you get them in the bottom of the tank, underwater, I don't think there are
any differences. This might not be right but I think the studies of Flourite hold true for EC I've not seen anything close to proof for either argument of nutrient extraction or completely inert. I have seen some studies that at casual glance looked legitimate. They showed some uptake of trace elements through the roots but it was minor amounts. I don't have any copies or sources. I do find it curious that EC is supposed to provide all these nutrients, but never runs out or needs replaced.
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-22-2020, 02:25 PM
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I'm running one tank with each right now. The Eco Complete is AWFUL to plant in. It's very light and the texture damages the plant roots. It's so bad if I didn't have the tank all stocked and planted I'd dump it and start over. I never liked the original Flourite color but Flourite Black is my new substrate of choice. It's easy to plant in, the grain size is good, and once you've got it rinsed and the dust has settled it's absolutely gorgeous.


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post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-22-2020, 02:59 PM
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..They showed some uptake of trace elements through the roots but it was minor amounts. I don't have any copies or sources. I do find it curious that EC is supposed to provide all these nutrients, but never runs out or needs replaced.
I guess the extraction is so slow that it never technically runs out during the course of the tank's lifetime. LOL.

On a serious note, it could be in low demanding systems there might be some benefit for traces. I guess the only way to find out is to do a side-by-side with two identical tanks. (surprised that can't be found on the net or I can't find it)

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I'm running one tank with each right now. The Eco Complete is AWFUL to plant in. It's very light and the texture damages the plant roots. It's so bad if I didn't have the tank all stocked and planted I'd dump it and start over. I never liked the original Flourite color but Flourite Black is my new substrate of choice. It's easy to plant in, the grain size is good, and once you've got it rinsed and the dust has settled it's absolutely gorgeous.
I never had a problem planting in Eco. I even planted individual stems of dwarf baby tears. On principal I will never buy a substrate that you have to endlessly rinse with no real gain once it's in the tank. The only substrate I'm willing to rinse is PFS, which is an easy rinse and your done.
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post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-22-2020, 05:40 PM
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Other than dirt organic potting mix, etc.), there really isn't any discernible co2 produced from active soils, like ADA, Landen, Tropica etc. This has been born out by thousands upon thousands of setups. Even if your using dirt your only generating a small amount maybe 5-8ppm so your still limited in what you can grow. Co2 tanks generally run 20-40ppm.
That's literally the case I'm making. If the CEC and nutrient levels are comparable and you're injecting anyway, then stick to what you like and is in your budget and don't sweat it.

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I'm running one tank with each right now. The Eco Complete is AWFUL to plant in. It's very light and the texture damages the plant roots. It's so bad if I didn't have the tank all stocked and planted I'd dump it and start over. I never liked the original Flourite color but Flourite Black is my new substrate of choice. It's easy to plant in, the grain size is good, and once you've got it rinsed and the dust has settled it's absolutely gorgeous.
Really, the EC is that bad? Now I'm over here wondering at how my swords are doing in the betta tank. Of course the only way to know is to dig em up and look lol. I tend to agree that the texture makes it kind of hard to plant in. My main complaint with both of these soils is you kind of have to convince them to hold rooted plants at first. There's a good chance I'm going to lose a crypt culture or two because the grain size is so big they wound up working themselves free. It's difficult to get the anchorage you need without burying the stem too deep. Luckily I had some of those plant weights laying around and that helped a little bit.

I might take your advice and try black substrate on my next tank. I have kinda mixed feelings about it but I've seen some really good-looking setups with it.

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post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-23-2020, 07:53 PM
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Really, the EC is that bad? Now I'm over here wondering at how my swords are doing in the betta tank.
Once the plants are in they will root well as long as it stays undisturbed. When I redid the R. rotundifolia the roots looked fine. I'm pretty sure I've run Eco Complete before and plants did well. I had just blanked out the pain of planting in it. Pretty sure it would tear up cory catfish barbs as well, though I didn't have any cory plans for the tank.

The point where I had the worst issue with roots was trying to plant some potted crypts. I pulled them apart into plantlets and between the lightness and the texture, the plantlets would tend to float away even if I thought I got the roots in. As you mention, the substrate doesn't have the weight to hold anything in. When they floated up they would have less of a root system because the rough substrate had ripped some of the roots away. I lost a few plantlets because of it. I also lost most of the TC swords because they wouldn't stay planted and each attempt to replant damaged the roots all over again. Any rootlets on stems will tend to get torn off as I replant them too, although stem plants don't care as much.

I don't think it's my technique as I was just planting C. parva in the Fluorite tank and had no trouble. The Fluorite had finer grains and a little more weight, and if a plant floated away the roots looked fine.

The good news is with the really light substrates, it seems like enough water moves around the base of the plant that planting slightly deeper than you normally would is OK. I just did TC hairgrass into Carib Sea's Samurai Soil - it's little balls like Stratum - and had to plant a bit too deep. I accidentally knocked a few plantlets loose on a water change and they had started to root.


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post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-24-2020, 12:09 AM
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Really, the EC is that bad?
No. It's perfectly fine to plant almost anything in. I'd suggest to focus more on the experiences that are literally playing out in front of you over anyone saying it's suboptimal. I unearth a few plants every weekly water change and just shove their roots back in and this works in SO many tanks. They're fine. EC is fine. Flourite (once rinsed) is fine. As is sand, gravel, aqua soil, you name it. If you experience problems in a low tech tank, it's almost always because of a nutrient imbalance (which is 9 times out of 10 lack of CO2) but it's not likely because of substrate. All bets are off when a newer tank is maturing, of course. But it still isn't a matter of substrate*.


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post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-24-2020, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Part one of the rescape is complete. I'll be adding some other plants this next Saturday.



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post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-31-2020, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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I added another rock, more plants and CO2 to finish off this scape. The dwarf sag is melting, but I don't think that will be a problem. The caps and roots still look good on all the plants that I saw. I trimmed as much of the sag as I could reach. I see there are a few in the back I missed I'll have to go back and get. I'm looking forward to seeing how this grows in.

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post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 08-31-2020, 03:06 PM
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I added another rock, more plants and CO2 to finish off this scape. The dwarf sag is melting, but I don't think that will be a problem. The caps and roots still look good on all the plants that I saw. I trimmed as much of the sag as I could reach. I see there are a few in the back I missed I'll have to go back and get. I'm looking forward to seeing how this grows in.


Looks great! Subbed and excited to see it fill in!


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post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-01-2020, 01:35 AM
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They both scratch up acrylic?

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post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 09-01-2020, 02:09 PM Thread Starter
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They both scratch up acrylic?
It's my understanding that acrylic scratches when you look at it cross eyed, but I've seen YouTubers use every kind of substrate in acrylic tanks. Personally I like glass.


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