Denitrification filter - why have a seperate one in a sump? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 12:07 AM Thread Starter
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Denitrification filter - why have a seperate one in a sump?

This might be a dumb question, but I really do need further clarification/explanation...



Why isn't it enough to just simply set up such a substrate, including a plenum, so as to properly cycle out all the chemicals? Why does one need an extra biocenosis clarification basket within a sump?



BCB...





More on the plenum...


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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkFleener View Post
This might be a dumb question, but I really do need further clarification/explanation...

Why isn't it enough to just simply set up such a substrate, including a plenum, so as to properly cycle out all the chemicals? Why does one need an extra biocenosis clarification basket within a sump?
I am at a total loss here.
Typically we dose NO3 & PO4 and don't really try to get rid of it until a water change to reduce it.

Video #2 contains various amounts of BS.
Have an 80G tank that can consume 3.5ppm of NO3 per day.

What chemicals are you trying to get rid of ?????


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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 02:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
I am at a total loss here.
Typically we dose NO3 & PO4 and don't really try to get rid of it until a water change to reduce it.

Video #2 contains various amounts of BS.
Have an 80G tank that can consume 3.5ppm of NO3 per day.

What chemicals are you trying to get rid of ?????
Mainly nitrates and phosphates. I kept fish with plants (when I had an aquarium) and never had to dose nitrates because the fish produced more than enough. I had to do water changes to get rid of nitrates, and I had to dose potassium and trace minerals like iron. Now I'm learning that an anaerobic filter can be built to get rid of the excess nitrates, thus minimizing water changes. It's all info from research several doctors conducted.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 03:14 AM
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I am mostly plants, way too many plants actually.
A few phish but not many.

Will this be a hi-light CO2 injected tank?

I would still not skimp on water changes.


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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
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I doubt I'll get into CO2, unless it's Flourish Excel. The hobby is expensive enough as it is.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 06:43 AM
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Most de-nit filter work on principle of as water flows by media aerobic bacteria consume oxygen and as oxygen is depleted anaerobic bacteria start showing up. Hes just relying on actual size of box and pore spacing of media to regulate flow it as water gently flows by it making micro currents through media.

My opinion is that design would be even more effective with way fewer holes in box.

Many types and sizes of de-nit media, you can even make your own using big chunks of lava rock.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-30-2019, 11:51 PM
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I think I may have unintentionally created a plenum in my 55 gallon tank when I created a false bottom to raise the substrate, leaving an open area underneath. I don't have any media down there like he shows, i had considered adding lava rock or something but I left it empty. I have still noticed increased substrate aeration, the crypts in there grow massive white roots with no evidence of anaerobic decomp. I have always had super low nitrates in this tank, sometimes doing water changes when I'm sure it wasn't necessary just because the maintenance had been so reduced that I needed to do something! I can't speak to any of the other benefits he mentions but I think having an open space under the substrate is definitely something to look into.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 03:47 PM
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I think I may have unintentionally created a plenum in my 55 gallon tank when I created a false bottom to raise the substrate, leaving an open area underneath. I don't have any media down there like he shows, i had considered adding lava rock or something but I left it empty. I have still noticed increased substrate aeration, the crypts in there grow massive white roots with no evidence of anaerobic decomp. I have always had super low nitrates in this tank, sometimes doing water changes when I'm sure it wasn't necessary just because the maintenance had been so reduced that I needed to do something! I can't speak to any of the other benefits he mentions but I think having an open space under the substrate is definitely something to look into.
Why did you want a higher substrate? I would expect that to reduce space for fish and plants. And how did you create the false bottom?
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 04:46 AM
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Why did you want a higher substrate? I would expect that to reduce space for fish and plants. And how did you create the false bottom?
It did reduce some space but it was a 55g which is nearly 2 feet tall so it still had 12 inches of depth on the shallowest part. (Side note, I'm doing this again in a new riparium and this will also be to grow plants in a more natural, partially emersed form)

It was made out of egg crate light diffuser zip tied to a plastic tub to support it. Then nylon window screen was played over it and gravel poured over that. I did not add any media under the screen but I will in the future probably add mesh bags of lava rock.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 05:14 PM
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Fishly, some of us want a higher area of substrate for aesthetic reasons. More of an undulating bottom seems more natural than just flat. Yes, in a shallow tank, you may be intruding on livable space. But in a 55 gallon, there is plenty of vertical space.

SwampGirl, I am also setting up a 55 gallon, and plan on raising a PORTION of my bed to get it closer to the surface for emergent plants. But don't forget, you can also lower the water surface! I am planning to do this also. This will give me an area between the water surface and the lid/lights for emergent plants to grow in the air.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by FlatfishTanker View Post
Fishly, some of us want a higher area of substrate for aesthetic reasons. More of an undulating bottom seems more natural than just flat. Yes, in a shallow tank, you may be intruding on livable space. But in a 55 gallon, there is plenty of vertical space.

SwampGirl, I am also setting up a 55 gallon, and plan on raising a PORTION of my bed to get it closer to the surface for emergent plants. But don't forget, you can also lower the water surface! I am planning to do this also. This will give me an area between the water surface and the lid/lights for emergent plants to grow in the air.
Exactly! The reason I didn't want to lower the water level on this tank was that I thought it looked ugly haha. I am setting up a rimless tank that I will only have 2/3 filled, I just think that rimmed tanks that aren't filled up to the rim look awful, purely personal preference. How do you plan on raising the substrate? I think I will try the lava rock in a filter bag method next over egg crate.
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