Seachem Flourite variants...which one? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Hello.

I am planning on changing my inert gravels and sand to a plant substrate .
I really love seachem Flourite descriptions and review.
But the real reason I want to go with Flourite is it's high CEC and no breakdown over the years .

But !!!
They have so many versions:
Flourite
Flourite dark
Flourite black
Flourite red
.....................
Flourite sand
Flourite black sand

So far , as I began to try and learn how to grow plants in an aquarium , I discovered the hard way that carpet plants like my Monte Carlo just won't grow in inert 3 mm gravel. It's two months now and it's just alive, no spreading.

Now , as I understand carpet plants and fine rooted plants in general need finer substrates aka sand in order to spread.

Back on the subject of Flourite .
What are the differences between normal ,red and dark ? Just the colour ? And what is it's grain size? I haven't found this info anywhere on the internet.

Now , I really don't want to bother with two grain sizes in the same tank, one portion with coarse substrate for normal plants and a finer one for carpet...it would become a mess, mixing etc...

I also heard that regular flourite (the orange-ish one) is coarser than flourite black? Is it true?

What you recommend me?
Is the regular flourite good for carpets? I expect to be harder at first until the Monte Carlo establishes but will it be able to spread and carpet in regular flourite/dark/black/red( assuming they just differ in colour)?
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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 10:06 PM
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Go with a good aqua soil like ada or tropica this is the best on the market to grow plants in IMO.

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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 11:50 PM
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Flourite does not have a very high CEC rating.
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Growing is not that difficult.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 12:07 AM
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I have tried flourite black and red. Flourite red was definitely more fine than flourite black. Almost in flakes rather than chunks like black is.

As for how well they grew plants I can't tell you. I had one water quality when I had red and another now that I have black. They're both inert so I suppose it would be the same, depending on ferts of course.

I definitely struggled to get anything to carpet. I started some carpeting plants in my flourite black recently and they didn't take off until I capped the black with sand and replanted them in the sand.
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 06:12 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah but your regular black will go up and the sand will sink....that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

As I mentioned in the original post, I want flourite or something like flourite because it won't break down over time .

I am fully aware about aquasoil being top, but I don't have money to rescape 75 gallon tank each year when the aquasoil turns mud .

So again, what would be the best solution, long term ?

And flourite has a good CEC , according to the company that made it and customers. Now a user says here that it doesn't .

Will organic potting soil and sand be good plant growers? I imagine not .

Is there a kind of substrate that lasts long ? I want at least 5 years minimum until breakdown . And be able to grow carpet plants as well.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Overrider View Post
Yeah but your regular black will go up and the sand will sink....that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid.

As I mentioned in the original post, I want flourite or something like flourite because it won't break down over time .

I am fully aware about aquasoil being top, but I don't have money to rescape 75 gallon tank each year when the aquasoil turns mud .

So again, what would be the best solution, long term ?
i don't think aqua soil breaks down that fast, think it took tom barr like 4 or 5 years before he decided to use a new batch of ada.

Quote:
And flourite has a good CEC , according to the company that made it and customers. Now a user says here that it doesn't .
Flourite's pretty weak or at least back then it was, not sure if they changed their methods of making it.
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Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi @Quagulator,

I think it would be a good idea. The last time this was done was about 2000 with the results of the testing published on pages 17-23 of Planted Aquaria Magazine Summer 2000 issue (hi-res .pdf - takes a while to load) the predecessor of the Aquatic Gardeners Association current magazine The Aquatic Gardener. The testing method and instruments involved are on page 22. Jamie Johnson was the author of the article. Here is a summary of the results, only a few of the substrates listed are ones we typically discuss today. FYI, the Turface listed as #16 and #16a in the chart are calcined Montmorillonite clay material very similar to the Safe-T-Sorb that we use today.


Quote:
Will organic potting soil and sand be good plant growers? I imagine not .
yeah it can work: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...periments.html
just look for something that's low in organic content, think top soil might actually be better than potting mix for that reason

Quote:
Is there a kind of substrate that lasts long ? I want at least 5 years minimum until breakdown . And be able to grow carpet plants as well.
Could always just go 100% sand and some osmocote balls, would have to be on point with your water column dosing though. you can grow carpet plants in sand.

tagging @burr740
2017 AGA Aquascaping Contest - #631
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...l#post10592026
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Overrider View Post

Will organic potting soil and sand be good plant growers? I imagine not .
Reality, not imagination.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post

Reality, not imagination.
Well , it didn't hurt me to ask, and I also got convinced. Thank you good sir.
Can you please tell me what are the non green plants in your tank?
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 06:47 PM
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Ludwigia peruensis, Ammannia senegalensis, persicaria india, rotala macrandra japan, rotala mini butterfly, rotala alata, rotala magenta.
These are on the right side of my tank.


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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 09:33 PM
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Capped soil is not for everyone.
Sometimes a while before adding livestock due to how "hot" the soil is.
Surface scum @ times needs a bit of skimming.

My next batch will only be a premium topsoil with small amont of added clay.

Never more than 1"
Sift for large particals of mulch and rock.
Soak in small potions to remove any floating debris.
Cap with @ least 1-1/4" of your favorite sand.

Removing plants takes patience to not make a mess.
Can't just yank them up.


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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 10:25 PM
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I used the red Fluorite for years and was relatively happy with it. I was able to grow DHG and Dwarf Sag very heavily carpeted. Of course, carpeting plants benefit enormously from pressurized injection of CO2 and high light. They will spread – eventually – under low tech conditions, but it will take much longer. Both, I believe, are more difficult to establish than Monte Carlo.

Many members swear by the active substrates. I favor the inactive substrates, which never need changing or touching (active eventually run out of nutrients). ALL of your nutrients can be supplied via the water column.

I switched from the Fluorite to CaribSea’s Peace River (with sand under it), about a year ago, to get a different look. It, too, is inactive, but it holds the plants much better than the Flourite did, mainly because it is smaller in size and heavier (the Fluorite is fairly lightweight). Neither one will “break down” over time. You should never have to change it or vacuum it …so long as it is planted.

As an aside: we don't have much info about your current situation. Do you have proper water parameters and nutrient dosing? These are important aspects for plant health.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
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Yep, I dose according to labels on the vials,well a bit less actually since plants grow like crazy except the carpet...because of the 4 mm black gravel.
I just noticed the Monte Carlo is starting to send runners with fresh big leaves , but it's clearly struggling with the large grains of gravel.
I also have about 30 lumens/ litre using a combo of T5 fluorescent and led all cool daylight.
Also pressurised co2.

Everything is ok.

I am more about gathering Info for when I will do a big 90 gallon aquascape , I just started small with a 15 gallon tank and a nano to learn and see what works and more importantly HOW .
You just can't learn from reading and studying alone.
Thank you all . Have a good day.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 10:59 PM
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Flourite variants

I've been using flourite for 20 years. I always have planted tanks. I've used flourite in low tech, and I have high tech tanks using it. I use it because I like the look of it. I like the weight of it....and I like the fact I never have to replace it. I never consider a capped soil because I like to change up things and I don't have to worry about the mess and the mixing of the soil and cap. Plants do well in my low tech established tanks, a fertilizer tab or 2 can help it out. My high tech tanks do well also but will require a well-managed fertilizer in the water column.

I have really heavily planted tanks. I haven't grown a lot of carpet plants but do grow baby tears, monte carlo, dwarf hairgrass. They all spread just fine. I haven't used many planted substrates so I can't compare. Does sand, capped soil and others do better with carpets? probably so. But I'm pulling up and trimming more than I want so it isn't important to me.

If you like flourite, don't let the purist scare you away from it. And it does NOT cloud if washed properly. I found that the black is a little finer than the regular. I recently tried the dark and it was larger grained and slightly heavier than the regular.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-17-2018, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShermanGirl View Post
I've been using flourite for 20 years. I always have planted tanks. I've used flourite in low tech, and I have high tech tanks using it. I use it because I like the look of it. I like the weight of it....and I like the fact I never have to replace it. I never consider a capped soil because I like to change up things and I don't have to worry about the mess and the mixing of the soil and cap. Plants do well in my low tech established tanks, a fertilizer tab or 2 can help it out. My high tech tanks do well also but will require a well-managed fertilizer in the water column.

I have really heavily planted tanks. I haven't grown a lot of carpet plants but do grow baby tears, monte carlo, dwarf hairgrass. They all spread just fine. I haven't used many planted substrates so I can't compare. Does sand, capped soil and others do better with carpets? probably so. But I'm pulling up and trimming more than I want so it isn't important to me.

If you like flourite, don't let the purist scare you away from it. And it does NOT cloud if washed properly. I found that the black is a little finer than the regular. I recently tried the dark and it was larger grained and slightly heavier than the regular.
You should add your insight more on the forum!
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-18-2018, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
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Well , i allways thought that flourite must work on at least the level of an inert sand , otherwise why good reviews from customers and the fact that seachem still produces it?
I will get a bag of Flourite black in a nano just to see how it goes .
But if it has no absorption value of nutrients and then release ( which seachem claims it has and also customer reviews, why would seachem lie , wouldn't customers sue them ?) , why should I buy it instead of black inert sand ?
Something does not add up, and I guess it's just like u said , purists who had great results with pure sand or capped soil, and don't bother recommending substrates anymore. Nothing wrong with that , actually it's better to spend those money elsewhere if it works just as fine with normal sands.
I will just try and see the flourite black before committing to a large aquascape with it.
Can you please tell me the grain size of Flourite ? Black?
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