Substrate Mixing/ Choices - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 12:42 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 119
Substrate Mixing/ Choices

Hello,

So Im carefully planning my first planted High Tech 33G long tank (48x12x12) and was researching substrate. I already own a 9L bag of ADA aquasoil and will need another 9L to create a 2" deep substrate. A few questions Im wondering however ....

1) is 2 inches enough? or should I be looking at something more like 3-4 inches?

2) I was looking at this website below. It says Aquasoil looses its nutrient value in a year. Therefore, I was wondering if it would be okay to mix Seachem Flourite with the Aquasoil. If so would it be better to use the Flourite on top as a cap or at the bottom as a base? Or should I really just stick with one type?
https://plantedtanksource.com/articl...lanted-tank.4/

3) If I were to create say a 2" deep substrate, that would mean I would only have 10" left. If I have an intank Atomic Diffuser placed close to the substrate, will I be losing more CO2 since its so close to the top?

Thanks in Advance
archangelvk is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 01:46 AM
OVT
Carpe Diem
 
OVT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (144/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 7,432
Hi there and kuddus for planning.

Everything in life is a collection of trade-offs and the ones you make depend on your personal goals and your personality. Philosophy aside, I am setting up a 22 long, same as your tank but a foot shorter. I love the "long" tanks but they have their own set of challanges.

- Substrate: I would not do layers. Over time, they will get mixed and the look would drive me crazy. Regardless of the substrate you chose, you will still have to fertilize the tank sooner then later. Pick the one you like the looks of, know what it is, deal with it accordingly.

- Depth: for that tank and most plants, ~ 2" is a good compromise

- co2: this is where the tank's "odd" dimentions make it interesting: it is long and shallow and getting the circulation vs flow gets tricky. Say, you are using a single filter. Your goal is to have a gentle current from one end of the tank to the other, without the substrate and plants and fish being blown all over the place. That goal affects your scaping choices: placing large solid driftwood / large stones smack in the middle will affect that current.

I am not giving you a specific answer to the above because there are many different ways to deal with it. Be happy to come back to that subject and throw some ideas back and forth.

Above all, have fun and enjoy.
OVT is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 02:37 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
Hi there and kuddus for planning.

Everything in life is a collection of trade-offs and the ones you make depend on your personal goals and your personality. Philosophy aside, I am setting up a 22 long, same as your tank but a foot shorter. I love the "long" tanks but they have their own set of challanges.

- Substrate: I would not do layers. Over time, they will get mixed and the look would drive me crazy. Regardless of the substrate you chose, you will still have to fertilize the tank sooner then later. Pick the one you like the looks of, know what it is, deal with it accordingly.

- Depth: for that tank and most plants, ~ 2" is a good compromise

- co2: this is where the tank's "odd" dimentions make it interesting: it is long and shallow and getting the circulation vs flow gets tricky. Say, you are using a single filter. Your goal is to have a gentle current from one end of the tank to the other, without the substrate and plants and fish being blown all over the place. That goal affects your scaping choices: placing large solid driftwood / large stones smack in the middle will affect that current.

I am not giving you a specific answer to the above because there are many different ways to deal with it. Be happy to come back to that subject and throw some ideas back and forth.

Above all, have fun and enjoy.
OMG, I never even thought about the substrate being kicked around by the current, and how I should therefore not put a large object in the middle of the tank.... Thanks so much for telling me that. I was going to use the Aquaclear HoB 50 for the 33G. How would you make it so that the spalshing from the HoB filter doesnt disturb the soil? place a stone/driftwood right under the filter? If you have any more tips on how youre setting up your 22 Long id love to hear them
archangelvk is offline  
 
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 03:12 AM
OVT
Carpe Diem
 
OVT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (144/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 7,432
The stone under the outflow is a good idea but I doubt you will have that issue. I currently have AquaClear 30 on max and the outflow does not disturb the substrate.

If you are fine with using HOB, then the approach changes a bit from if you were to use a cannister filter. I personally like HOB on long shallow tanks but I bet you will end up using 2, if not 3-4, of them, across the back of the tank. Having multiple filters has multiple advantages over using, say, a single cannister. You can clean them in turns and if one goes south you are still ok.
OVT is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
The stone under the outflow is a good idea but I doubt you will have that issue. I currently have AquaClear 30 on max and the outflow does not disturb the substrate.

If you are fine with using HOB, then the approach changes a bit from if you were to use a cannister filter. I personally like HOB on long shallow tanks but I bet you will end up using 2, if not 3-4, of them, across the back of the tank. Having multiple filters has multiple advantages over using, say, a single cannister. You can clean them in turns and if one goes south you are still ok.

I dont own a canister filter so for sure I will be using a HoB one. I have an extra Aquaclear 50 and was planning on using that. I also have an extra 20 which I can use as well. However, would using multiple filtres screw up the flow of the water? I also planned on keeping German Blue Rams which I read like calmer waters. Would using multiple filters be a problem there as well?
archangelvk is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 02:30 PM
OVT
Carpe Diem
 
OVT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (144/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 7,432
No to both questions.

The flow from a reasonably sized HOB is pretty locolized. The intake is right under the outflow, and the outflow does not bounce off the opposite wall all that much. If you can visualize a rotating barrel that does to extend far outside of the HOB's width.

Healthy German Blue Rams are pretty hard to find nowdays. But if you do, they will find the spots they like, which, most likely be hanging around a plant or a stone.
OVT is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
No to both questions.

The flow from a reasonably sized HOB is pretty locolized. The intake is right under the outflow, and the outflow does not bounce off the opposite wall all that much. If you can visualize a rotating barrel that does to extend far outside of the HOB's width.

Healthy German Blue Rams are pretty hard to find nowdays. But if you do, they will find the spots they like, which, most likely be hanging around a plant or a stone.
Oh okay thanks ! I always thought the flow would be from right to left not front to back. Its gonna be interesting to see how im going to get the flow going the other way since I need the CO2 to circulate length wise. Maybe put the HoB filter on the width side so it shoots sideways?
archangelvk is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-01-2018, 08:23 PM
OVT
Carpe Diem
 
OVT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (144/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 7,432
And this is where the combination of HOBs and co2 gets ugly. As you said, HOBs on the back wall create one flow but we want the co2 flow peperdincular to that - not good. Putting a HOB on one or both ends of the tank exchanges one set of problems for another: it looks ugly, in my oppinion, and the flow is still wrong for co2. Assuming one can "tune" each HOB to reach the center of the tank, creating 2 x 2' "flow" sections, then you would need to inject co2 from both ends also. I am certainly interested if you can see another workable approach.

When I had a 12g long high tech tank and had no place to put a cannister filter, I ended up using 2 small HOB / cannister "hybrid" filters (Finnex 360) on both ends of the tank. That worked out pretty well for several years (I have pictures of that set-up somewhere in TPT).

With the 22 long, I do have room for a canister filter and I am using Eheim 2215. That is the best solution I came up with todate.

Thoughts?
OVT is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
And this is where the combination of HOBs and co2 gets ugly. As you said, HOBs on the back wall create one flow but we want the co2 flow peperdincular to that - not good. Putting a HOB on one or both ends of the tank exchanges one set of problems for another: it looks ugly, in my oppinion, and the flow is still wrong for co2. Assuming one can "tune" each HOB to reach the center of the tank, creating 2 x 2' "flow" sections, then you would need to inject co2 from both ends also. I am certainly interested if you can see another workable approach.

When I had a 12g long high tech tank and had no place to put a cannister filter, I ended up using 2 small HOB / cannister "hybrid" filters (Finnex 360) on both ends of the tank. That worked out pretty well for several years (I have pictures of that set-up somewhere in TPT).

With the 22 long, I do have room for a canister filter and I am using Eheim 2215. That is the best solution I came up with todate.

Thoughts?
I was thinking that I am going to put the filter on the side. I know it may look a little strange but..... In addition, if you top off the water in your tank each day (im planning on an open top) and keep the water level on par with the filter, then there shouldnt be TOO much agitation. I mean yes, HoB isnt IDEAL but then again the CO2 we will loose from the off gassing would result in what.... maybe an extra week at most?
archangelvk is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 03:52 AM
OVT
Carpe Diem
 
OVT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (144/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 7,432
Right, I am not concerned about the extra cost of co2, but with it even distribution throughout your 4 ft tank.
OVT is offline  
post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by OVT View Post
Right, I am not concerned about the extra cost of co2, but with it even distribution throughout your 4 ft tank.
Perhaps I'll add a power head on the opposite side to create more flow?
archangelvk is offline  
post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-02-2018, 05:48 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by archangelvk View Post
Perhaps I'll add a power head on the opposite side to create more flow?
yes powerheads are perfect to create more flow.
IntotheWRX is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome