Pressurized CO2...Just thought I'd share. - Page 27 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #391 of 406 (permalink) Old 06-16-2018, 03:08 PM
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Thanks,I'm researching regulators still . Here is one newbie observation. A lot of what I am seeing considering most price ranges and your early recommendations; Single stage regulators: Cornelius, Micromatic, Victor as well as; Dual stage regulators: Concoa, Matheson and Victor, most have horizontal bottle mounts and this makes no sense to an old - old -school welder. I don't want sideways gauges! What's up with this?
I've gone back to looking at the single stage regulators for cost savings.
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post #392 of 406 (permalink) Old 06-16-2018, 03:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brian Rodgers View Post
Thanks,I'm researching regulators still . Here is one newbie observation. A lot of what I am seeing considering most price ranges and your early recommendations; Single stage regulators: Cornelius, Micromatic, Victor as well as; Dual stage regulators: Concoa, Matheson and Victor, most have horizontal bottle mounts and this makes no sense to an old - old -school welder. I don't want sideways gauges! What's up with this?
I've gone back to looking at the single stage regulators for cost savings.
Brian
I'm not sure what you mean by horizontal bottle mounts/sideways gauges. The gauges can be rotated, as they are simply threaded into the regulator body. Unless you are referring to the text not being parallel to the ground?

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post #393 of 406 (permalink) Old 06-16-2018, 03:22 PM
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Yes the gauges text position. My acetylene tank has a horizontal mount which makes its gauges sit correctly, whereas the oxygen bottle has a vertical upwards facing connector and its regulator and gauges fit on top. I hope that made sense.

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post #394 of 406 (permalink) Old 06-16-2018, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not quite sure what you are referring to; here is an example of a CO2 system I set up a few years back.



The next is readable, albeit not precisely parallel with the floor. However, once you set it, there's not much you need to do; unlike welding, you don't need to constantly read the pressure.

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post #395 of 406 (permalink) Old 06-16-2018, 05:24 PM
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Thanks @Darkblade, I was wrong on two things I said; The Acetylene is the vertical tap and that is the regulator that is sitting at 90°.
That regulator you posted looks great and the angle of inclination of the gauge is fine.
I must be making a mountain out of a molehill again.
Sorry to be a nuisance early on.
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post #396 of 406 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 05:33 AM
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Nice thread. Is it okay to save or follow your thread? I am new in this hobby and planning to do a planted tank. But, i need to enhance my idea before setting up and I need this kind of help, well detailed information, from experience person. Btw, I signed up because I read your forum. 😬
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post #397 of 406 (permalink) Old 12-20-2018, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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Nice thread. Is it okay to save or follow your thread? I am new in this hobby and planning to do a planted tank. But, i need to enhance my idea before setting up and I need this kind of help, well detailed information, from experience person. Btw, I signed up because I read your forum. 😬
Yes, of course it's fine to save this thread!


Welcome to the hobby!
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post #398 of 406 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 11:57 PM
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Alternative Regulators

Well, this is quite the informative thread! Thanks to all that have contributed so far. I was wondering if a flowmeter-style regulator would work for this operation and possibly get rid of the bubble counter? Here is a link to a short article comparing three different styles:


https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/...-gas-flow.aspx


Thoughts?
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post #399 of 406 (permalink) Old 01-03-2019, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Well, this is quite the informative thread! Thanks to all that have contributed so far. I was wondering if a flowmeter-style regulator would work for this operation and possibly get rid of the bubble counter? Here is a link to a short article comparing three different styles:


https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/...-gas-flow.aspx


Thoughts?
Flowmeters can work, but generally only on larger aquariums. This is because for larger aquariums, the volume of CO2 that must be injected is quite large, making a traditional bubble counter (and counting bubbles), a bit meaningless, since you will be injecting gas so fast anyway.

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post #400 of 406 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by barley View Post
Well, this is quite the informative thread! Thanks to all that have contributed so far. I was wondering if a flowmeter-style regulator would work for this operation and possibly get rid of the bubble counter? Here is a link to a short article comparing three different styles:


https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/...-gas-flow.aspx


Thoughts?
Well you would have a problem with that one.

It's measuring SCFH, or standard cubic feet per hour. 1 SCFH = 472 cc/min. Most of us are injecting somewhere between 20 and 80 cc/min into a planted tank.

That is why the Dwyer flow meters are useful to us. In relative terms, we are measuring a VERY small amount of flow. Most meters simply can't measure our small amounts.


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post #401 of 406 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 04:27 PM
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So what would be a ballpark rate for a 75 gallon tank? My plans are to plant a carpet (Monte carlo) and anubias, maybe some swords. At the moment I don't have my local water quality scores sitting in front of me, but there's got to be a relationship between rate of CO2 injection and volume of water. I'm trying to figure out what an appropriately sized system would be so I don't have to re-purchase different parts down the road. Again, the information on this site is very much appreciated.


Thanks!
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post #402 of 406 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 04:40 PM
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So what would be a ballpark rate for a 75 gallon tank?
Best guess is Dwyer RMA 151-ssv 5-50 cc/min scale.

There are lots of folks here who post their flow meter levels. Here's a thread that should help.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...in-gallon.html


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post #403 of 406 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 09:19 PM
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Best guess is Dwyer RMA 151-ssv 5-50 cc/min scale.

There are lots of folks here who post their flow meter levels. Here's a thread that should help.

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/9...in-gallon.html



Thanks, that's what I was looking for. I just found this site a couple of days ago and haven't had a good chance to dig through it yet, but it seems to be chocked full of useful information. I appreciate your help :-)
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post #404 of 406 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 06:52 PM
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The next piece of equipment that is essential is the needle/metering valve.

A needle valve is a piece of equipment that takes the delivery pressure of the regulator and further drops the pressure down to the very fine flow rate that we require for aquarium purposes (i.e. we often refer to our flow rates as "bubbles per second"). A metering valve is the "high end" needle valve.

Needle valves work by restricting the flow of gas via a small needle (hence the name) that can be opened/closed via a screw/caliper handle. In general, higher quality needle valves/metering valves will have allow finer control by having more threads. This means that it takes more turns of the handle to change the flow of CO2, meaning you get finer resolution (i.e. if you turn a needle valve 1 turn and get an increase from 1 bubble per second to 10 bubbles per second, you would have a hard time adjusting your flow. However, if you turn another needle valve 1 turn and only get an increase from 1 bubble to 2 bubbles per second, you can achieve much finer control).

A good quality needle/metering valve is essential. This is definitely one piece of equipment you do not want to be stingy on.

Here are some brands that I recommend:
Fabco (particularly the NV55)*
Ideal (particularly the 52-1-11)**
Swagelok (many various models available)
Parker (also many various models available)

For those that are more technically inclined, have a look at the thread over at the Barr Report (linked above), as it discusses the finer points of a quality needle/metering valve (i.e. best Cv to look for, etc)

One brand of needle valve that I would strongly advise against is the Clippard needle valve (Part #: MNV-4K2) . While it is quite cheap (perhaps $18, if ordered online), many users have lamented that the quality of this particular needle valve leaves much to be desired. A common problem with this needle valve is that it "floats." This means that while you set the CO2 flow rate to a particular setting one day, the next day (or perhaps within a few hours!), the CO2 flow rate will change noticeably, requiring more fiddling on your part. This means that while you set your CO2 to an "optimal" flow rate one day, the flow might stop the next day, or it might be so high that it will gas all your fish to death. Definitely, this is something you want to avoid, so do not be stingy on a quality needle valve.

*Note 1: The Fabco NV55 contains #10/32 port fittings. These are not your standard fittings and adapters cannot be purchased at the hardware store. The setup I would recommend is to have #10/32 to hose barb fittings and not trying to find #10/32 to (say) 1/8" NPT adapters. This is because attempting to attach the Fabco NV55 to the regulator is not a good idea. The Fabco NV55 is quite a heavy needle valve, and the #10/32 fittings are quite small and fragile, so a slight bump may cause the fitting to break. With the hose barb adapters, you can run this needle valve in-line.

**Note 2: This particular Ideal metering valve has 1/8" female NPT ports on both ends. Other models exist, and I can also forward you the PDF/website with the particular details if you require/PM me.
Is there a rule of thumb for how much CO2 flow in SCFH or SCFM is required to keep a given volume of water at the proper level of CO2 (in ppm)? One online calculator recommends 25ppm of CO2 for a tank with a medium amount of plants. I'm guessing there are too many variables (water temperature, surface agitation, type of plants, photo period, water hardness, etc) to give an accurate figure, but what about an average range? If the volume of a bubble is approximately 0.001 cubic inches (complete guess here), then 2 bubbles per second is only 0.00007 SCFM. I'm wondering why some have had to use pressures of up to 45 psi to get this small of a flow rate. Their needle valves must be super restrictive.

Last edited by mossman77; 08-20-2019 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Corrected information
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post #405 of 406 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 04:28 AM Thread Starter
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Is there a rule of thumb for how much CO2 flow in SCFH or SCFM is required to keep a given volume of water at the proper level of CO2 (in ppm)? One online calculator recommends 25ppm of CO2 for a tank with a medium amount of plants. I'm guessing there are too many variables (water temperature, surface agitation, type of plants, photo period, water hardness, etc) to give an accurate figure, but what about an average range? If the volume of a bubble is approximately 0.001 cubic inches (complete guess here), then 2 bubbles per second is only 0.00007 SCFM. I'm wondering why some have had to use pressures of up to 45 psi to get this small of a flow rate. Their needle valves must be super restrictive.
The 45 PSI that some people are using is because of the ceramic disc/glass diffuser that are used. The pores are tiny, and require quite a bit of pressure before CO2 can be forced out.
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